Fuel pump fail replacement?

I read through all the treads on fuel pumps and did not see where someone has replaced theirs. On my 08 TE450 with 1320miles, the fuel pump works intermittanly. So far, it only fails when upon trying to restart; it has never stopped working while the bike is running. Sometimes it primes when the key is turned on and other times not. All other idicators are fine like the engine green like, starter works, but no fuel pump at times. I've taken the pump out 3x checking all connections and even re-crimping some. The pump relay works every time and 12vdc is going to the pump during that initial 2 second key-on, but no pump. I even connect 12vdc right to the pump terminals - nothing; then all the sudden it spins. But put everything back together test ride, 4 or 5 restarts OK, then the next try and nothing.

The dealer wants $560 for the pump unit. I just need the simple pump motor which sould only cost $50! Does anyone know how to buy just the pump motor whether factory or aftermarket???

Link to Source for KTM Fuel Pump Alternatives

Hello Bendbiker:

I have no idea if these aviation fuel pumps would work, but there is a lot of information at a KTM site about sourcing alternatives for their fuel pumps. Here's the link:

http://www.ktm950.info/how/fuel_pump/fuel_pumps.html

Good luck & let us know what you find!

Howard

ShercoUSA





work 1-800-607-8742

work info@shercousa.com


Note: Fuel injection parts that Husky does not offer.

Looking at a parts list blowup it does not look like you can get parts of the pump unit. Probably liability issue from what I've been told. You definitely can get some small parts on the unit.

There is a fix for zip tying the internals so they don't slip. Hard to say if this would be any part of your problem but it's described on the site somewhere.

Bend Euro Motors might be able to thoroughly test the unit and see if there's a fix.

OK, I found the manufacturer (it is written on the terminal lug side); it is Aisan in Czech Rep. The importer is Franlin Precision Ind in Kentucky, ph 270-586-4450. I'm calling them Monday. Part number = 4S 7jb-b2 00071.

The problem, in my case, certainly was the motor. Tapping on the side of the pump causes it to start. Openned it up and looked like dirty commutor. Cleanned with scrub pad; starts every time (appx 50 restarts). Still looking to buy a new pump motor Monday.

Yes, the zip tye trick was also needed to keep the pump in the correct position.

Good info.

It will be interesting to see if they will sell parts.

Wow, nearly $600 for a fuel pump assembly when all that is needed is the pump motor. What if we need just the filter!!! That's an environmental waste!!

Anyway, I called the manufacturer in the USA, Aisan USA, ph 248-434-5011 in Michigan, and they say they only sell to OEM's. Not giving up yet, I sent too emails to the Czech Aisan company, but no response yet. Their web site is in English, so I suspect they can read my emails. Here is the web address which provides phone numbers and links to their various worldwide facilities: http://www.aisan-ind.co.jp/english.htm

Anyone know a friend in Czech?

My bikes running great after cleaning the commutator contacts; the brushes looked Ok.

I was told it will end up being a liability issue for them to sell you parts.

Like when you see those warnings "no user serviceable parts". The lawyers have spoken.

Harleys have fuel injection. They sell a few parts for these. http://www.injector.com/harleyinjection.php

I believe these are mounted outside the tank.

Regarding filter replacement: The 09 parts catalog shows two new part numbers, one for the large sealing 0-ring and for the filter, but not for the pump motor, yet. Maybe by 2010 they'll list the motor.

My pump motor is acting up again. Time to spend a huge, unnecessary amount of money.

Bendbiker,
Is the commutor inside the pump motor or did I read that wrong? Can the motor unit actually be pulled apart?

I don't want to spend huge, unnecessary amounts of money either.

Thanks, Jim.

Fuel Pumps

Went for a ride yesterday with Xymotic and after we returned his bike wouldn't start. The pump wouldn't prime. After troubleshooting, and swapping parts from my bike we deduced that the fuel pump was the culprit. Later confirmed by pulling the pump assembly, slipping out the pump motor, connecting it...it twitched like stuck commutators/brushes, I tapped it and it finally spun up.

bendbiker, had a thread on TT mentioning that he got the pump motor apart to recondition the coms.
http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-783881.html

Anyone else had luck with this? I can't see how he got it apart. Looks like a sealed unit to me.

The PN for the pump is a bit different though: 4S 7IG-B1 00071.

I'm also interested in whether anyone has had luck ordering the pump itself rather than the whole assembly.

As he mentioned, the pump says "Made in Czech", but appears to be Aisan "Japanese"

Aisan Site:
http://www.aisan-ind.co.jp/company/e_overseas.htm

Aisan "Czech site":
http://www.aisan.cz/abcz/En/Products.aspx?produkt=cerpadlo

Franklin Precision Industry "US Aisan subsidiary"
http://www.fpik.com/cor_contact.html

FPI appears to deal mainly with large OEMs like Toyota etc. I'll call Monday, but I doubt they'll do small orders of parts the don't likely import from Aisan JP.

If anyone else has sourced these I'd love to know where. Having to buy the whole assembly is retarded.

Cristian- a member here posted that he has found a replacement pump and has them for sale on ebay<< here>>

No one has reported to have done his swap but him so far, but its only been a month. If My pump went out I would buy one from him before spending $600.

We saw that, but it's not the stock pump. It's a larger pump strapped to a piece of allthread. We can do that locally without ordering from Romania, with a Walbro or Bosch pump for example. The regulator and return line should ensure that a larger unit, with sufficient PSI suffices, but we were hoping to source the appropriate unit. Thanks anyway.

I'll call the US Aitan distributor tomorrow. At the very least I hope to find out then specific specs of the stock unit so people can size up without going overboard.

We reinstalled after tapping it loose. It hasn't stuck again after a couple dozen starts, but it's obviously on borrowed time. Rolling then dice every time we turn it one 'til we sort out what to replace it with.

Someone tried this way back when ...08....and got nowhere, although they did make contact.

Good luck

Yeah, same deal here. The US guys just deal with cars and didn't have the info, but told me that Aisan isn't in the habit of giving out OEM spec, because they don't want to step on the toes of their clients. So evenif I could speak Czech and called those guys they likely wouldn't help me.

The closest I got to the spec was the following from the 630:

"The engine now features a 45 mm throttle body with the starter command on the handlebars and there is a 300 Kpa Mitsubishi “twin jet” fuel injector fitted to the throttle. The pressure regulator (3 Bar) regulates any return of excess fuel to the tank and the MAQS (Modularised Air Quantity Sensor) consists of air temperature, mapping and TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) sensors...
New components include the rugged 12 litre polyethylene petrol tank with a 40l/h pump;"

300kpa = ~43.5 PSI
40l/h = ~10.56 g/h

It's the smaller flow that is a bit difficult to find. Most of the places that list specs online are for automotive applications, their flow is way high and could possibly overwhelm the return line and regulator.

On this failed pump, when you turned the ignition on did the pump just make a single "click" noise and then not prime?

That's what just happened on my 09 SM510, bike cut out midcorner and then the fuel pump will not prime or operate, just makes a single click, sounds like a relay.

I'll actually look into it tomorrow, could be something simple...

Yes, the relay is working fine, but the pump motor wasn't turning. I held the motor in my hand when I clicked the kill switch off, and I could feel the motor twitch and hum. It was definitely stuck. So I tapped it lightly with my screwdriver handle and it spun up. It's been working fine since and has been reinstalled, but it's only a matter of time before it fails again.

It ran fine all day, but it simply didn't start again after the ride. I think momentum prevents it from sticking while running, when the power shut off it spun down till it snagged and didn't have the torque to break free without help. Not unlike starter issues.
Chances are that even when it fails again, be it the next start or a hundred starts away, it can be uninstalled and tapped loose again, but in my experience it's only a temporary solution and it'll just get worse with time. Were it not a sealed unit I could recondition it and get a bit more life out of it.

So, there is no cheap replacement located yet? The ebay unit is too big?

My 2010 TE450 with 70 miles on it has a bad fuel pump.

Did you buy it brand new? Shouldn't it still be under warranty with only 70 miles on it?

Can you post any description/part numbers.where to buy on these larger, similar PSI units.

I bought it used, with 22 miles on it, from a dealer 350 miles from here, it was put into service in July 2010, so it should still be under warranty. I will be taking it to a local dealer today, but the problem is somewhat sporadic, so that usually ends up with "We couldn't reproduce the problem".

As I ended up pushing it along the roadway yesterday, I think I want to get the fuel pump replaced PDQ.