The 2011 Supercross season is a wrap, and...not once did KTM podium their 350. They got close, but close isn't winning. I am not a KTM hater, but they aren't for me. I am no expert, but a 100cc hadicap doesn't seem the golden ticket in SX.
To be fair, none of the top 5 rated riders were on one either. When you look at "the rest", Short put the 350 on the top of that pile. With a bit more development I think they could do OK. Remember, because their power to weight ratio is different it requires a different riding style to get the best out of them. When the big heavy powerful 450's first hit the scene taking over from the lighter 250 2-bangers it was a similar story - though admittedly the difference between the 4 stroke and 2 stroke engine braking probably had a bigger effect in that scenario. If you read what the guys say about the 350, they say it requires more higher rev "thrashing" of the engine like the 250's to extract the power, and relies more on maintaining momentum as you don't have the power on tap to simply make up for a loss in momentum. The lighter bike makes keeping that momentum easier though as you can throw it into corners and man-handle it easier. Another reason why I'm not writing the 350 off yet is that in the Enduro scene there seems to be a niche for them. Already we have factory Husky riders opting for the 310 over the 450 in E2 - mainly to get the weight advantage. Bore it out to 350 (might not be quite that easy I know) to get a bit more power, and we may be settling on the new bore size of choice. Will be interested to see how the KTM 350 does in E2 by the end of the year (I'm pretty sure there is at least 1 running).
450 weight (essentially) without 450 power = fail. Also, it seems that Alessi has had his head everywhere but firmly affixed to the top of his shoulders, giving them a poor showing...though I expected more out of Short...Perhaps it will fair better in the outdoors...
According to MX Action (http://motocrossactionmag.com/Main/News/MOTOCROSS-ACTIONS-2011-KTM-350SXF-VERSUS-KTM-450SX-7575.aspx) it is only a 5lb difference (237lbs vs 242lbs). Hmmm, surprised by that.
SX fail for sure...MX not so sure. CAiroli and Alessi were killing it at Glen Helen last year...A 350's rotating mass is probably more favorable at the tail end of a second moto...
And I don't think Arctra's point can be overstated...in 2010, Pourcel's lap times were often faster than anyone in the 450 class...Put Canard or RV1 on the 350 and lets get some lap times for reference. It may just need someone to wring it out for an entire 20 lap main to be successful... Also, can the weight of the "button" and the EFI be a hinderance? The 450 hasn't needed EFI to win multiple shootouts...In other words, what if they stripped it down to run carburated with a kick start, would that make enough of a difference? Just thinking out loud...
Shorty had never beaten the same guys he rode against this year when he rode a 450 against them in the past ... He finished in the mid top ten most races this year as he has finished in the past ... If he would have finished out of the top ten or below riders he had beat in the past, maybe it would mean something of substance but that is not the case ... He finished this year at the level of his riding skills and it appears the bike was of no hindrance or advantage to him ... This bike has also been talked about non-stop for ~2 yrs now ... AKA -- free advertising ... it's really hard to say this is a failure ...
if it needs to be ran wide open the whole time maybe it would fit stewarts riding style more............oh ya bring extra parts for it
AS said about the same on the bike, speed needs to be carried with it and it is not a 'point and shoot' machine ... AS said he did not think it lost much if anything off the line in sx because most starts were short and on hard surfaces .. It also needed more low end added and I'm sure everyone here is aware the ama tore the #800's bike down a few weeks back and found it legal ...
New issue of MXA has Shorty's bike...If they took the E-start off it would be under-weight for the 450 class. At that level, the weight is much less of an issue, it would seem...
this argument is going and going the riders that rode the Kato350 finished the same as when they rode 450s, and as far as speed/power , note that 800 did holeshot and come out of the gate many times in the top 3-5 he is just not a solid SX guy by his own word (wait for MX), Short is a top 5 guy, not a podium guy in most races check his past resume'. Any of the top 3 guys and especially Villo (as one the best/fastest 250F riders, check his comparative 450/250 lap times from a few a years back) would do well on the 350, there is always the power to weight ratio to consider as well, for MX Cairoli=featherweight. Check the lap times of the 250F lites riders the fastest of them are right up into the top level of the 450(350) guys. Its all about the rider, Villo on a lites bike would still be on the podium in the SX class, you can bet on it. Kato350 first year in 10-11 SX not bad at that level of competition. 1st year bike 2010 MX1 championship cant do much better than that. Ive ridden the XC-F and did not like the power characteristic/balance at my skill level, a remapped/cammed/ignition/compression etc exc version could be nice for offroad/enduro, it needs more of the KTM famous electric enduro feel for me to like it (the same feel that MXers hate).
My take is that the weight isnt the issue, but the torque hit of a 450 is sometimes detrimental. I dont think a pro rider in a 20 minute moto needs much protection from the brutal 450 torque. On the other hand in a 2 hour off road event it could help anyone but the most fit of us to have a bit less punch. A riding surface that is tractionless might also be a venue where a less powered bike has an advantage. Seems like something good for the average guy and less so for the top riders.
The only thing I would add to the discussion is that Chilly White [enduro360.com] has grown to really like the 350 for off road. Chilly is an ISDE type guy so he knows how to ride and evaluate bikes. Most interesting is that, if you read all of his reviews, he really didn't care for the bike at first -- hadn't sorted it out and couldn't get used to it. As he rode and raced it, it appears from his comments that he really has learned to love it. He said that it was one of the best race bikes he has ever been on. A couple of things I took away from this [abstractly] -- bikes are more than just first impressions. Sometimes you need to invest some time to get to the good stuff. I think this is also the theme for the new 449/511 too. Lots of editors making a quick guesstimate of the bike -- It will be interesting to see if they do any long haul or extended evaluation tests. Another thing I took away is that I think 350 might be actually be a really good off road displacement. Now if Husky could get the EFI sorted out on the 310...
which is why I always liked the 400 KTM made....much easier to ride off-road than the neck snapping 450.
