Clutch baskets and primary gears

Split the cases on my 83-500 tonight. looking at the clutch assy. Made me get the one from my parted out 87-430 and compare the two. 87-steel basket with larger clutch-ok that would be a upgrade I would think. Primary gear on 87 is alot larger diameter so I dig out crank gear, kicker idler, kicker gear. Idler and kicker are the same 83-87. Crank gear is smaller which makes sense to match clutch gear. That 87 always kicked hard but it started easy. I now know why, its spinning faster with the kicker because of the gear ratio. I wanted to use the 87 clutch because it was new shortly before bikes funeral. I think I'll put it in the 500 to make it easier to start, hard to kick it fast enough with the "half throw" kicker. I plan on putting the decompression valve on it before it goes back together so "old fat guy" can start it Anyone else done the later to earlier engine clutch swap? Good-bad or anything else? Thanks in advance, Scott

Hi Husqfleet.
Good find!
It would not be better to put all in this thread?
http://www.cafehusky.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7907

Or maybe even this one ? :http://www.cafehusky.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6842

yes thanks, I saw that thread. The title is "kicking the 500", so, it do not make to much reference for somewone looking for replacement parts. I'll do the reference link on the thread.

I believe the above is in error. The small gear on the back of the clutch often wore out. Somewhere around 1986 they changed the three gears involved in kick starting one sutck to the clutch. I have upgraded my old stuff. It is one of the weak links and should be investigated before doing stuff like spending big $. I believe this is true if you read through the exploded parts sheets and parts numbers. Maybe yours was already upgraded or you didn't try and see if the gears actually mesh.

Fran

Scott- I have the 4 speed tranny & '85 steel clutch basket assembly in my 430 CR. It changes the final ratio to that of the later 500's so it's geared 14:52 to match up gear ratios #2, 3, 4, & 5 of the '82 430 CR. Not an issue at all.

Here are the pics:

kicking the 500s

Scott - I was told by the guy that sold me my bike that my '83 XC500 has an '87 clutch assembly fitted. Plenty that I ws told was not true, so who knows.

Maybe that's connected with my kick starter only giving me 90 degrees of purchase on the engine?

If you want me to whip the clutch cover off and take any close-up photos of anything, let me know.

Cheers
Lucien

I didnt check the mesh, just the tooth count of the small kicker gear on that back of the clutch basket. I have the whole assy from the 87 but will look everything over good. The reason the 87 is deceased it broke the case at the kicker idler stub. It had ignition problems and kicked back horrible on last trail ride trying to get back to the pickup. It actually slowed down like a siezure, coming to a stop then tried to run backwards-nice. fired it back up and then noticed oil on my boot- broken case.

Lucien, thanks for the offer. I have that later tall alum. kicker lever like you do on my 82 CR250. I dont see why you couldnt cut the "ramp" out some more on the plate so the pawl will engage the kicker gear sooner=more throw. I'm going to do that on my 82-430 with the dogleg kicker, short throw and have to kick fast to get it to start.

Lefty-What kicker do you have on yours?

standard dog leg kicker. there's an art to kicking these over and we had a discussion thread going, T?

This is a GREAT upgrade to the older bikes. We should get the parts info and maybe some pics together and archive it.

I have done the swap to the later year gear set and kicker parts. It works great, and does exactly as you say: Engine is a little harder to kick over because of the greater crank spin you get, but does fire easier. I did this to a 430.

Over the years there were actually several primary ratios, clutch designs, kicker gears, teeth counts, and so on. I don't know them all. So be careful, swappers! VERY important to check for proper mesh.

The other benefit to the lower ratio is that you can swap to a larger C/S sprocket and still have the same overall ratios. Longer sprocket wear, less chewing on the swingarm pad. It's just a good swap all around. Especially like the all steel baskets.

I also still have one 430 (1981) with the original ratios in it. Because of the ratios, you can almost move the kicker by blowing on it, but the motor is VERY hard to start. The crank seems to rotate about half a turn with a full boot to the kicker. Collecting the proper upgrade parts now...

I have a complete 87-430 engine to "poach" everything out of. My original 83 second gear on the mainshaft was wearing through the hardsurface. The 87's second gear, which is the same as the 83's has rounded shift dogs. Anyone know if they are still availible NOS? Looks like the 87 idler gear is the same, just the clutch basket primary gear and the crank gear different. I have reground the "ramp" on shift dogs on my drag trans before with limited success,hard to get each one the same. It then transmits all the force on one-big bang theory then happens. Thanks for the info, Scott

I will take pics as I go along. I have to get crank/rod fixed before any progress.

Not having the tech specs for the CR500 1984, what is the primary transmission ratio ? I would like to check mine, it has 39/70, and it is a 4 speed. In the 85 CR500 4 speeds, the ratio is 33/76. It changed in 85, or mine has the wrong clutch basket ? Thx

I find these tech sheets in pdf form on this site at http://www.yourhusky.com/files/tech_data_81-88.pdf look for page 31. You will find 39/70 but six speed and the parts sheets shows six speeds. I believe where the four speeds are in the parts sheets they have their own picture. I thought I had a four speed cr once but it turned out to be a six.

I rode my 1983 xc500 a lot and that clutch ought not to be spun any slower. I remember when it was time to change the plates one time it wouldn't stall it would slip. Spinning the clutch slower will make the engine torque at which it slips less the way I see it. From what I recall taking bikes apart, not wandering around the parts sheets the water cooled 500 xc had the same primary gears. I never took apart any cr water cooled or 87-88 ones either. Another strange thing I noticed was that it sure appears the 125 of some year around there had the same clutch primary gear however the clutch fingers weren't solid like the 500 ones. Of course the primary gear on the crank was tiny.

I have a 84 model with four speed. But, I am wonder if the 84 came with four speed, I may have a 83 engine with the clutch assembly of 84 ?

You have the primary ratio which spins the clutch the fastest of that and the other ratio you posted earlier. I was looking to go for a four speed because I was doing hillclimb racing which involves a much more aggressive tire and winding up the engine and dropping the clutch. The four speed has just about the same ratio as the six speed but no first and no sixth. The gears must be more robust. Later on the cr had five speeds. Try wandering around that document I linked earlier and see when they had four speeds by that. I sure can't tell if euro spec models were different. All the husky literature is plastered with the statement they can change any specification at any time and for any reason. I don't let what year it is supposed to be bother me. I never did get a four speed or five speed set up. in the six sped the closest two gears are third and fourth so I geared for that shift.

Fran

Ok, if I understood well, for better clutch stress, it is better to go from 39/70 to 33/76 ?
Thx

39/70 for less clutch stress my preferred choice.