I've noticed that when I turn my key on the dash seems to go through a sequence and today it will say "FAIL" for a little bit but if I ride it it goes away. It will say SEL 2 then SEL 1 and then go to fail and stay there until I ride it for a bit. Anyone have an idea of what this means? Thanks! John
Its pretty standard! As long as 'fail' disappears you have nothing to worry about. The 'Sel1/Sel2' is indicating the two maps in the ECU. 1 is full power, 2 is wet weather which softens the power off for low traction conditions (more relevant for off road but also of use if you ride in the rain). You need the optional 'dual mode switch' to access the wet weather map. Might be worth getting your dealer to plug the Ibeat in to see if you have any stored faults. Dave
Yup, my TE450's done it from new. Usually SEL2 then FAIL then SEL1, though it does normally clear immediately after that even if I don't start the bike. I know individual bikes do vary, and mine doesn't always do it - sometimes it just goes straight to SEL1. So long as the FAIL does clear and it runs ok you should be fine, but like Dave said there'd be no harm in getting it checked on the iBeat software if you can, just to see if there are any genuine faults stored in the memory.
Thank you for the help so far, much appreciated. I just got back from a ride and it seemed like it wasn't running quite right, then it kept dieing on me. Barely made it back home. Symptoms are it keeps stalling and is smoking, almost like it's flooded. Possible plug fouled??
An update; I went out to remove the plug and it seems the plug wire wasn't fully "snapped" on. It also appears that it had over heated as there was dried coolant on the engine around the overflow. I removed the plug and it could of possibly been fouled a bit, not sure. So I replaced the plug with a new one and it started right up fine, rode it for about 4-5 miles and it ran great though the dash is still giving me a "FAIL". Any more ideas from the pros here? Thank you!
If the dash is still showing FAIL after 5 miles then you definitely have a problem. It can be just the dash itself which is showing a failure when there really isn't one - in that case iBeat won't show any failures in the history and when it happened on my bike changing the dash itself cured the problem. However, if the engine isn't running right it sounds like you have a real problem rather than a false indication. Your best bet really is to get it on iBeat if you can, as that will tell you right away whether the system has recorded any failures and if so which component the failure was in. My first guess would be the water temperature sensor as I'm on my fourth one in a year and it's known there was a bad batch which tend to fail. It can cause the FAIL warning and the warning can be intermittent if the sensor is jumping between different readings (e.g. if it reads well below zero you'll get the warning but not if it's reading a temperature which is wrong but is in the normal range). A bad sensor can cause rough running as the EFI is fuelling for a different temperature to what the engine's actually at, but I'm not sure whether it would actually cause overheating (maybe if it was running way too lean, but the smoking sounds more like it's running rich). However if the bike was running hot for whatever reason and the fan should have come on, it wouldn't do if the temperature was stuck at a low enough value so it could make things worse. A bad sensor usually makes the bike hard to start, but only because they tend to be stuck at something like 80-90C so the EFI thinks the bike's already warm. If yours is stuck at a low temperature, it would probably start ok when cold but run badly when the engine warms up. BTW, where exactly was the dried coolant? I'm no expert but I thought if the radiator overflowed it was supposed to go into the header tank rather than actually leaking out - unless the header tank is full or it vented some out of the cap under pressure? Of course there's plenty of other things it might be - no doubt some people brighter than me will have suggestions for other things to look at. Good luck with finding the problem anyway.
Hi Petem, Thanks for all the help! I think you're correct and it could very well be my temp sensor as it behaves just as you said. 1) It starts easily when cold 2) Hard to start once warmed up 3) Seems to be running rich, smoking etc. The dried coolant was on the engine around the overflow "box"/header tank. I'd love to have it checked on an ibeat but I didn't buy it from our dealer, bought if from Bills. I'm sure they would check it as it's new and under warranty but it really sounds like a temp sensor. Going to call Bill right now and see what he says. Again, thank you for all the help! John
No problem. It could still be something else other than the sensor, but those symptoms sound roughly right for the sensor to be stuck on a low temperature. If you can't get the bike to a dealer who has iBeat it's a very quick job to change the sensor so maybe they can just send you one so you can try it to see if that's the problem. If the FAIL message is showing at the time you can just take the plug off and plug the new sensor into it without even fitting it to the bike - if the problem really is the sensor that should cure the message so then you'd know it was worth fitting the new one (which you can usually do without even draining the coolant and you hardly lose any). If the FAIL message isn't showing at the time you'd just have to fit the new one and try running the bike to see if it works. It'll be interesting to see what Bill says - he might have a better idea for something else to try first if he's seen these exact symptoms before.
Talked to Bill and he feels that you're correct and it most likely is the sensor so he is sending me one to try and see if it fixes the problem. It sure sounds like that's what it could be as it just seems to be running very rich, runs great when it's cold and rough running after warm up, stalls and smoking etc. Bill pointed out(after asking me if it ever came on) that another indicator is that my fan never came on even though it was over heating, very good point. Again, thanks so much for all the help Petem, much appreciated! Oh, when installing the new sensor do I need to use any type of sealant on the threads?
Oh, I did get to play a little bit before this little problem; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-19Ebnvn8Y http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYb_hWNp6kQ&feature=channel
Not as far as I'm aware, though I haven't seen written instructions. The sensor comes fitted with an o-ring (see pic) which seats into a small indentation around the hole when you screw the sensor in, so that by the time the metal surfaces make contact the o-ring should be nicely compressed - I'd assume it's the o-ring which makes sure you have a seal. Once you have it all the way home so the metal surfaces are in contact just give it a tweak with the wrench without overdoing it and it should be fine. None of mine have ever leaked so far or been difficult to get out again when they failed... View attachment 5306 BTW, you deserve a medal for testing those ramps and steps just for the benefit of the children. Course, if you did that in the UK you'd be more likely to end up with a criminal record as it's the sort of thing our cops would love to catch you doing!
Ok, I see the O-ring, thanks for the pic and help. Now, where is that darn thing?? I had a look last night and can't spot where it's hiding, is it under the overflow box or something?? Thanks for the medal recommendation but keep in mind, it's for the good of humanity, oh yeah, and the Children!! Let's not forget the kids! I like to inspect areas for possible safety hazards, sort of a public service type deal. Darn shame that they're so strict with you guys over there, but, sadly I'm sure it's coming our way next.
You mean where does the sensor fit into the engine? Its on the rear of the cylinder near the left side. Look at the back of the cylinder from the left of the bike and it's easy to see: View attachment 5319 There's a cable going to the back of it of course, which plugs into the black socket you can see sticking out on the first photo I posted - the plug's hidden behind the vertical cable loom on this photo but you can just see where the cable comes out to the right of that and immediately droops down. The loom gets in the way a little bit when you're working on the sensor, but it's really pretty easy to get to.
Yeah I took a second look last night and found that baby, now just waiting for the new one to arrive. Looks like I'd lose quite a bit of coolant when I remove it but as previously mentioned I guess that won't be the case. My wife and son will be gone the entire weekend so I can't wait to get the sensor so I can go ride-will ride until my butt blisters if I have too! I've got a brand new bottle of "Monkey Butt" powder and I'm not afraid to use it.... Again, thanks for all your help Petem. If you ever make it across the pond and you're ever in my area you just let me know and we'll ride, I've got spare bike/s and you're welcome to em!
That's a very kind offer on the spare bikes! Who knows, one day... All I do is lean the bike to the right and leave the radiator cap on, and very little coolant seems to come out when you pull the sensor. Hardly even needs a coolant top-up afterwards. No harm in being careful though in case yours is different and it pours out everywhere! Let's just hope changing it cures your problems anyway. Of course, I've only ever taken one out when the engine was cold - wouldn't want to try it when it's hot...
Well here's an update on my bike; ended up having to take it to the local dealer to have them try and figure out what is wrong with it. It just seemed to be running, when it would run, extremely rich. To make a long story short it appears as though the computer just lost it's fuel settings and went to VERY rich settings. So rich that the exhaust system had raw fuel in it! They removed the exhaust and plug and let them "air out", reset the CPU, new plug and they said it now runs great. I am still a little nervous and hope that all is well with it, we'll see. I've ordered a PC V w/AT and will be installing that pronto. Thanks for all the help! John
It's still not running right-this is starting to drive me nuts and it's dangerous too!! Got the bike back from the dealer, they said they checked it over and found nothing and that it's now running fine. Got it home and it is still sputtering and stalling. It's died on me several times as I've pulled away from a stop light, it just dies and is a bitch to get restarted. Twice already I turned right on red and it died just as I rounded the corner-there I sit dead on the road with traffic barreling down on me! Talk about crapping your pants... The weird thing is that the bike runs terrible usually on the first ride, and park somewhere come back out in a few minutes and it runs fine on the second ride!?! I'm at a total loss for what's going on but this sucks; I have a brand new 2010 bike and I'm scared to ride it as I've almost been run over several times already and I've had to push it home once as well. That time it died right in the middle of an intersection and I had to run/push the bike in between oncoming traffic, not fun....
Yikes! That's not good. I have no idea what would cause it, but if the ECU lost its fuel mapping once that could mean it's actually faulty and it might keep losing the mapping or now be failing in some other way. Any chance your dealer might have another ECU they could fit to see if that cures it? Either way, it sounds like they may need to take another look at the bike as what they did obviously wasn't a complete fix.
