First start attempt on 88 510 a no go.

What's the trick, or technique I'm not aware of on starting these 510's. I have in the past, had no trouble starting a YZF400, about 15 years back, and about 5 years ago, had no issue starting a buddies 01 XR650R. Always had 2 strokes, since I was young, and low performance 4 strokes are no issue. I thought the idea on these higher compression 4 strokes, is you kick it slowly through, till you can't move the kicker. Then, give a little compression release lever, till you can slowly bring it over TDC. Then no compression release, no throttle, fuel on, choke on, and a big full kick, and she should lite. I couldn't get much in the way of any signs of life, out of my new to me 88 510TE. Started trying random techniques also, and no luck. I'm either not useing the proper technique with where to give the full kick at, or not useing the compression release right. Thought I was getting enough piston speed, on the full kicks. Maybe one, or all of the above adding to the challenge. No boots in use either, as I'm still waiting on them to show up next week.

Any pointers on starting this 510, would sure be appreciated. Going to give it another go tomorrow.

You probably ought to get a new plug. Actually when I went to buy mine the guy couldn't start it but called me back in a few days when it worked fine. I have changed it a few times but don't recall if it totally wouldn't start or not. It is a tiny little thing and might not be all that easy to get out. You need a deep socket but a thin walled one and then maybe a two inch extension (3/8 inch drive) then the ratchet or mini breaker bar whatever you call it. You have to get the stack the right length. They may well have come with a tool but I have a deep socket which was turned down in a lathe a little.

It isn't as hard as a 500 two stroke when cold. I have not had good luck with the water cooled 500 two strokes but I would say it is easier than the air cooled one I ride starting it the first time when cold. Both start with few kicks. The four stroke can be really frustrating when you stall it warm though. Mine is strange about the compression sometimes it has incredible compression and sometimes it doesn't. When cold (first time of the day) I stand on something, A five gallon pail with the lid on is about the best size but if I have to settle for only half a foot or so high that works. You have to be able to start it on the level once warm or it is kind of pointless riding it. I probably ought to buy some new riding boots as mine have a hole from kicking these things in the center of the right sole. I generally don't use the boots this year as I haven't been entering events. Just rubber boots like $25 or so at Wal-Mart work fine so long as you don't crash and get squished. Trying to start the four stroker standing over it with the left foot for me is less desirable than on the air cooled two stroke one. You seem to describe the right routine, go to top and bump it over with the compression release and kick it. The automatic compression release stuff isn't on mine any more but the lever on the bar works fine for me when it doesn't slowly get past the top with some pressure on the kick lever. It should rum like a big sewing machine the noise it makes what with the roller lifters. It should start with one or very few kicks. No throttle, enricher (like choke) lever pulled up until maybe 10-15 seconds after start. Might also check the valve clearances, mine don't seem to need much adjustment but the way I ride none of my four stroke bikes ever has needed a lot of adjustment.

I might also add when I got mine was about the time the last few of them were being entered in enduros. Those ones or some of them did smoke quite a bit. Mine never has. I know I entered mine in at least two enduros but the funny thing was I got totally exhausted after one mile after the first check into the woods the first time.

Fran

I'm kinda thinking new plug as well. She's got tons of compression, that's forsure. If you don't use that compression release, it's like hitting a rock when kicking. The PO, even has a video clip still up on youtube, of him starting this bike. It doesn't show any technique though. He did say that he and his brother wore themselves out, trying to start it the first time. When not useing the edge it over TDC with the compression release method. I was pretty surprissed I didn't see more life out of it. Unless I just wasn't getting as much piston speed with my kicks as I thought I was.

It also didn't smell flooded, which I actually expected. But with all the kicking I did, it had to have pulled a bunch of fuel in I'd think. Making me wonder if the plug is fuel fouled, from the PO, and me now.

I'll tell ya what though, my dogs are wrestling around, and they just hit my right shin, and I had the kicker one time spring back, just from the return spring (near the end of my efforts), but it was a near full stroke. Until my shin stopped it, lol. Oh man, forgot what that knot on the head, but on the shins felt like. Ooh, little bit tender now. Swelling on the knot has gone down some lol. I immediately remembered that I used to make a big habit out of wearing boots, when starting anything that was being tricky or tough at all for whatever reason.

OK, spent quite a bit of time looking at bigger 4 stroke bikes being started on youtube. Been so long since I've had a bike, I should have not even bothered to try and start it so many times. Between the youtube clips, and reading info in the tech section, with some starting details, and well she must have a bad plug. That's my current thoughts anyways. I'll touch base with the PO, to see if he can shed anymore light on it, as I already know they had trouble starting it. Then, claimed no issues once the technique was down. Well, I was already more than close enough with my technique, to have seen more life than what I did. Had plenty of kicks that should have shown some life.

I couldn't seem to find what plug this should have, anybody know???? I don't want to assume I should match whats in it. Would rather know what it calls for. But I will double check what it does have in it, tomorrow. Think I have two NGK B8ES or some such new plugs out in my tool box, spares from a previous bike. I'm sure I won't be lucky enough for those to be right though lol.

Fresh plug for sure. That will also show if its wet.Try laying it over untill gas runs out of overflow tubes. Stand it back up and give a swift one. I had 600's of another "H" brand and a "Y" brand and that worked good for me. No boots kicking a big bore-ouch!

OK, sounds good. Fresh plug it is then.

And maybe I do need the boots. Maybe even though I thought I was kicking adequate, based on youtube clips of like XR650's etc. Maybe really, the lack of boots was taking just that little edge off my speed. I know I had many wasted kicks because of no boots, but plenty of good full kicks.

You guys all kick these, and similar, only with boots on?

Any ideas on the NGK plug I need? Same as for an 85/86 510?

After bruising my insole I wont even kick my 250's without a boot on! Most of the time a four stroke wont start cold is lack of fuel.

You might want to make sure it's getting fuel. I had the same problem on one of mine a while back after it had been sitting a year or so. I had trouble digesting the problem as it had always been an easy starter (relative term). Turns out the needle was stuck in the seat and not allowing the float bowl any fuel. Fixed that, back to her old ways.
Good Luck!

Definately wouldn't recommend a carb'd bike sit for any extended length of time with fuel in it. This ethanol crap will destroy your beloved machine.

ngk C7E or something which crosses with that. The threaded portion is 10 mm diameter not 14 like B8es. If you have something else to test it in, (on, not screwed in looking for spark) I use a gasoline powered wheelbarow style air compressor but a lawn mower probably would work. Mice or other things can move into the air cleaner and in some cases even the exhaust of motorcycles. If the wife feeds the birds chances of this increse.




I see no need to do any laying bike on side. Mine starts fine I do have a brand x which that laying bike over technique works well for but wouldn't recomend it for one with the same carb as I have. I figured it out the hard way that when it goes on it's side often a siphon is formed and gasoline comes out one of the little tubes. It is even possible to start and ride it with this going on. It is not the needle and seat which is connected to the float. The cure is to lean it over (lay it down essentially) the other way and break the siphon. I never removed the briggs and stratton needle I went to because new husky parts didn't cure it.
Fran

When I have bike acting up like that I just put the tow rope on it and give it a pull.It should fire up and then you can see if it will kick start when it's hot.After it cools down see if acts the same.

Interesting. Back in about 95, I rebuilt a basket case Honda CR250, and dug out all my old mags from the time. Did every trick the privateers were doing to the bikes to keep up with the factory boys. End result was a very high compression 250, that took the strongest kick of any 250 I've been around before or since. Now that bike would bruise the snot outta my foot, if I tried to start in shoes and couldn't get her lit real quick.

Oddly, or luckily for me, I was getting the timing of my kicks accurate enough yesterday, to not be before TDC. So I never had any issues with my insole's getting all to sore. Toes on right foot, from coming down and kicking the foot peg at the bottom of stroke, till I got a different more sideways foot technique working. And then just the kicker return spring making the kicker wack my shine when standing to left of bike. At first, you hardly notice it. But then one good one, and yahoo, big big knot, and ultra sore.

Doing better pain wise by far today, than I was expecting. After the extensive starting efforts yesterday, and being so new back in the bike scene. I'm still stoked though. Can't wait.



I'll double check that she was getting fuel. All I did was pull the fuel line off right after the petcock, and had fuel there. I did tip the bike down to the right side at perhaps a little beyond a 45 degree angle. Hopeing to see fuel come out the overflow vent tube. But did not see fuel there. Figured I just wasn't leaning far enough. And would have to fill the tank more, and actually maybe lean bike to the opposite/left side, to actually get fuel out of the carb overflow.

You guys have touched on something I forsure need to confirm more thoroughly. Last night I was going through things, not that there's much to it, but that was the one thing or question mark still there in my head to. The PO had drained the bike of fuel, and I didn't see fuel out the overflow when I leaned her over.

I'll dive in deeper, on confirming fuel in the float bowl. Have on rare rare occasion had Holleys on some of the strip/street musclecars I've owned in the past, do the same thing. Or the opposite of sticking wide open from high fuel pressures. Needle & seat valve are definetly something I need to look at more. Thanks for the pointer.

OK, thanks a bunch Husky John. Definetly appreciate the specific what to do details. I'm really wondering now, if that might actually be the issue.

Then, sounds like I was right on the money with technique. Albeit a little more able to be more aggressive if I'd had boots on, but hey, she was getting enough piston speed, with compression, enough of the times to have barked back atleast once.

Something simple, like needle & seat, is the issue. That's the good news.

oldskool63 - Thanks for the pointer. Does the Ethanol eat stuff up, or?

I'll see if I can't get a chance to check the needle & seat valve today, and drain gas following.



fran...k. - C7E, or a cross. OK great. Thanks a bunch fran, appreciate the plug and leaning details.



Dirtdame - OK, cool, will look into it today hun. Thanks much, some additive against the ethanol had barely entered my thoughts. Sounds like good added insurance. Appreciate it!



auto - Thanks, yeah, that thought occurred to me yesterday. Especially once I was getting pretty tired. Unfortunately, nobody around to assist in that technique. Have done it before years ago though, as a youngin on fouled plugs.

Now that I've been up and walking some today, my bad left ankle is kinda sore here today. So, I dunno. May try to start again in a few, or might wait for the new boots. Found out the boots should be here Monday or Tues., so.......not a long wait if I decide I need boots before the next attempt. Will let pain dictate it, but man I am anxious to hear her run for me. Real neat bike. For a 2 stroke guy, I'm glad I chose an 80's 510 for my venture back into owning a 4 stroke. And glad to have brought this specific one into my care, despite her giving me trouble on the first start attempt. Very clean, and easy to take back to a more original appearing, or whatever.....kinda bike. Suppose to be a 1 hr completely fresh engine as well.

Thanks guys, really appreciate all the helpful input and suggestions. Hope your all having a great Christmas day!

-1tuff500xc
Ethanol (ethyl alcohol) acts like a solvent and readily absorbs water. Likes to eat up plastics and rubber while also has corrosive properties on your metals. I am using the marine Stabil like Dirtdame recommended.

Sounds like a nice bike. I'd wait for your new boots. There's always tomorrow.