After 30 odd years of riding 2 strokes, l'm thinking it's time l tried/own one of these modern day 4 strokes namely a KTM350EXC or Berg 390...would love a Husky FE350 but finances rule this beauty out and came within a beesdick of buying a Beta 300RR (yes l do want an electric leg). Majority of my riding covers fairly tight single tracks with sharp climbs/descents, a lot of wash outs when on long climbs and descents...fire trails are great but boring after a while. I have ridden 450's of various makes but only a brief, here you go have a ride type scenarios and as l value this forum for info and members alike, what are some of the difficulties/changes that you had to make riding style wise when making this transition? PS. Still keeping my WR360 and 250 so all is not lost for me yet as a smoker
Transition? Engine braking and engine oil are 2 things different between my 2t and 4t Huskies ... Clutch feathering can nullify the former and you need the change the oil much more often on the 4t bike ... Engine braking is useful in places like controlling speed on downhills and in corners, where you do not need as much braking from the discs rotors ... 4t bike is just easier to ride, ESP on a track, ESP over jumps ... Still gotta feather the clutch like the 2t but not nearly as precision work is required to keep the rear tire hooked up... Gas mileage can be much better also...At least on mine because you can ride it very slowly if desired. Good luck with your new bike... Cranking -- Not sure on the bikes you mentioned above but all my 4t do not require a throttle twist to start the engine.
Cheers Ray!! 4t maintenance l'm up for cos of all the roadbikes l've had and blokes l know with 4t's have all told me the frequent change of oils and filters etc...about the same that l do my tranny oil change @ every 3rd ride. I've seen valve checking and shim adjustment and all l can see it's a lot more precise or finicky then a car. Yes clutch technique is one that l've observed when riding 4t's..that fact that my 360 was so good down low that l rarely used the clutch to accelerate (maybe used to knowing where the power was in the band??), when in tight ST's that doing the same pass on a, say 2012 KTM450, l tend to flame out. Other areas what l found strange: Corner entry and braking: Just so use to entering the corner trail braking whereas on the 4t, the engine braking catches me out leaving me braking so much earlier. Downhills: Lol, my technique is dump into neutral, use the front and rear and concentrate on the line..on a 4t l'm still using this technique!! Overheating: Never has the 360 overheated but l have witness plenty of 4t's overheat...hmmm. Why choice of a 350 or 390 for a 4T they just felt lighter and l can rev them up like a 2 banger whilst the power of 450 is notice, l always feel that top heaviness. Dunno..just have to buy and see, if not sell the thing and go back to a 2T
congrats on finally coming out after 30 years OMG! man i love smashing laps on my bros 14 500exc but the thing is a handful in the ST! gets power to the ground very well & has torque by the bucket load but will bite you hard if you get disrespectful of it or tired! stick it in 3rd & ride, maybe 2nd for tight corners & 4th for long straights! engine heat(radiation) concerns me more while riding more than the thing boiling over. gets fricken hot & will burn the bejeebuz outta ya if it landed on ya after a digger!!! fans take care of boiling over for the most part but never as cool running as the 2Ts. just gotta get some air through their gills every now & then. 350s are pretty nice power/torque wise. still rev out well but can ride em low in revs too. its a pig to pull up(compared to 125 but to be fair the 300 also feels heavy after riding the little bike) but engine braking helps. not really heavy to pick up onto stand at all but just feels heavy riding(gyros/inertia). 350 feels much better in that respect. personally i hate engine braking as it stuffs up corner entries for me after riding 2Ts. need more time to adjust to riding 4T & id be fine im sure. flame outs shit me to tears though as you cant come up to a log etc at idle(or below/near stalling) then just gas it like on the 2Ts with no clutch or very little. they stall & you smash ya nuts on the tank or ya chest on the bars as you nearly go over them! sounds stupid but in tight going you have to have a finger on the clutch all the time as they stall very easy(same with berg 350/450s i rode a few times & wr450f) or be trailing throttle. kinda the opposite to what people think really. 2T will keep chugging much lower & come back from the dead so to speak. 2T refires from clutch/bump start much easier too with bike just rolling although estart is pretty awesome i must admit. awesome fuel economy too! id definitely go the newer 350s over the 390 if you want it racier. id go a 350 everyday over the 450/500s if i turned despite my weight. id like a 250 TBH but would just be a touch underpowered i think. you wont really lose so i say you go girlfriend! oil changes every 500km(5-7 rides or so) on 500. full syn motul. 350 maybe change a little sooner but much a muchness opposed to 2T motor oil/tranny oil
I must have over-braked on my 4t bikes for the first 2 yrs I rode them at least and still do it too often today ... Just gotta tell myself often do not touch that rear brake just yet. ... Almost coupled with that action, is you can not close the throttle completely too often or the bike speed will get slower and slower ... You gotta keep the throttle opened some and engine pulling the bike or engine braking is stopping you any time you left off ... Just not gonna rev my 4t bike past 10k in most cases ... that's my best maintenance tip.
Well after much searching the used bike classifieds of the known world, l've settled on a 2013 Berg FE350 with 60hrs on the clock. Should pick it up next week and get it rego'ed (that registered for the road for you yanks) but l've got a feeling it might come out to play the week in arrives to my door (from Qld). Watch the classified's space....
I have owned 4 stroke dirt bikes on and off over the last 30 years. So far, I have not really managed to get used to them, and only like what they have to offer for riding stretches of highway that are in between the trails. Power delivery is the biggest culprit. That and the engine braking effect.
Yeah thanks Dirtdame for the extra bit of confidence I said to my bro "I'm either going to like it or it's going in the river" even started complaining about how 4t's sound shite compared to a 2t and l haven't got it yet I'll see how it goes...it's only a stop gap measure until the fabled 2t Di bikes come out, still have the 2t's in the stable
I'm sticking by all I've said and wrote to-date and I'll add, in the last ~week, I've got two 250cc 4t bikes gone engine and clutch bad right at the 400 hr mark ... Certainly glad I have a 2t bike I can ride till I get this other saga figured out ...
The one big difference I notice going back to a 2 smoke is the difference in power delivery. Even with a madman map in my PCV I was surprised a few times last weekend on my first WR sortie by the power valve hit. But as other folks have mentioned, the 449 is a little easier to stall. A smoker gives you lots of fair warning that you've lugged too low. The stroker flat stops in it's tracks once you're down too low. Takes a little more forethought to get the front wheel up, but it's not hard. You can at least plan on longer range with the Berg. And being able to stop at any old place for gas, er, petrol is a good thing.
All great comments which is why I like this forum so much. (A 2t vs. 4t conversation without personal attacks) I'm die hard 2 stroke guy but when I ride my son's 2011 yz450 there are situations where it has advantages over my 2ts. Loose flat corners are much easier to flat track around with a precise throttle control the engine braking can set the rear of the bike exactly where you want it. Another situation is anytime you need an instant snap of the throttle to clear a double log or a double jump the torque is just a blip of the throttle away. I find the engine braking too much in most cases but it's what my son likes most about it and he uses it to his benefit. I think I'd have to exclusively ride a 4t for a year or so to really get used to it. If I had to switch to a 4t I'd probably go with a Yamaha 450. I'd like to hear feedback on what adding a Recluse clutch does to the pros and cons. I've always been an advocate of learning to ride and control the clutch with one finger same as a trials bike but I imagine a recluse would tame some of the engine braking and cure the flame out that some speak of. My son rode his first endurocross event a couple years ago and stalled his bike in the log matrix which cost him the win. My friends all harped on me to get him a Recluse and that it was a must for endurocross but I refused and instead I bought him an ASV shorty clutch lever and told him to leave one finger on the lever at all times. This way he can fully disengage the clutch while holding on to the grip with his other three fingers and not getting the bars jerked out of his hand in sections with multiple rocks and logs. He rarely has a flame out or stalls anymore in fact I can't remember one in the last year of riding with him.
yes practice your slipper clutch techniques on decel (and of course on accel) not only brakes but slipping the clutch to keep the rear settled and control engine braking as a good thing . Its a free brake use it you can go deep and under control
G'day Doug, l wish l had a go on a trials bike in my twenties as the amount of clutch and balance control is soo cool it aint funny, l think you should definitely tell the young fella to stop being lazy with clutch control and if Mike Brown can win endurocross with an FE350 with a normal clutch system then so can he...just keep the electric start!! Now, in terms of us (2t riders), they might be a god send as the engine braking is something l have always noticed and l agree, l reckon it will take a good amount of riding to get use to the characteristics of riding a 4t bike after spending a lifetime of 2T's. It's quite funny and for those who ride supersports bike or road racing, a 2t dirtbike is a akin to a Jap inline 4 and the 4t akin to a vtwin, the inline 4 spins up quickly lacks engine braking, lacks low down torque, ok midrange and monsterous top end; the vtwin has that top heaviness, doesn't rev hard and very strong engine braking, monsterous low down torque, great midrange and ok top end...it took me many practice days and track days to get use to the characteristics so l see my move to a 4t being similar. Back to the topic, l guess it's generational thing with 4t and 2t, those born before 1980 grew up riding 2 strokes as they were the racebikes of the day. Now the younger generation are grown up with riding 4t's from teenagers onwards so their riding skills have been honed to the characteristics of 4t riding that they too struggle with riding a 2t bike that doesn't have engine braking, feather light throttle, poor clutch techniques due tot he dependence of that tractor like pull - hey, l think the rekluse was created to mimic the characteristics of a 2t in terms of flame out...l'd just be happy with a slipper clutch.
The trails you describe a 2 stroke is better.... I seriously considered a 430rr before going to a 300rr
I think 2 strokes have a little engine braking. I did lots of clutch out cruising downhill in first gear on my old IT and Sunday on the WR. I just think the type is different. The big difference is I remembered to blip the throttle to keep the top end lubed with squirts of fresh fuel/oil. I had certainly gotten lazy with the four stroke. I did also notice the lack of needing to modulate the engine braking with the clutch on the WR like I have become accustomed to on the 4 banger. Then again I think I have always ridden my TE a little like 2t all along, so going back was pretty easy.
4t exhaust note sucks, heat generated sucks, stalling(recluse on 4t prob not bad idea) & engine braking suck, weight sucks too. but.....as doug says that instant snap/throttle connection to rear wheel(new gen efi bikes) while moving is awesome & they lay power to the ground very well. in case of 450/500s maybe too well where on a 250/300 2t you might spin up a bit the 450/500 dig a trench while still grabbing traction & sending you warp speed in a hurry. id personally go a 350 too despite my size/weight as they retain a bit of 2 strokishness(revvy & less engine braking). give it half a dozen rides before you judge it too harshly OMG. biggest thing for me(again as doug mentioned must cover clutch a lot more than 2t for tech stuff) is the way they just flame out just off idle. like coming up to a log slowly in 1st, go to pop the front with no clutch(ala 300 2t) & all of a sudden youre kissing the front fender. just a technique thing i guess. got 2 mates with 13 fe350's & both done well over 100 hours with no issues!
Cheers mate...was about to PM you as there is a berg 350 in Bunbury but l thought of you and it's probably thrashed Yeah, l'm prepared that it will take a bit a time and hence the reason l went the 350 as l maybe able to ride like a 2t. TBH, l was kinda loosing my motivation riding the 360, don't get me wrong, when l'm on it's like your favourite porn channel but the thought of kickstarting when all the blokes have buzzer starter l think it's time for me to come into the 21st century and try something radically different. I've never been sold on a rekluse as l think they are useless on a 2t (engine braking give me a break) but on a 4t, it might be my first mod...although l do love bump starting!!
