Random Stall – a Silver Bullett or as close as we may get. TR650 Husky

Finally installed the big injector (Bosh part #:0280158124) so I now have Pulstar plugs and the big injector. After three cold start/warm ups it has not done anything wrong at all wrong. When cold, I can let out the clutch at 1600-1700 rpm, just thumping away and just roll on the gas and she pulls away without any hesitation or anything. I rode 340k's yesterday (mixed of gravel slow & fast and black top) and the motor did not fault once, I suspect there might have been two occasions where I almost detected something, but I did say "almost" and it was on gentle roll-on from over run. So, its looking very good and the only adverse effect is the fuel consumption indicator is under estimating by about 10%, which coincidentally is how much bigger the injector is and that would add up, give or take. When I get a chance I will try a MOSS reset on all adaption values & components and see if the consumption readings swing back into line.

If my bike continues as it is now, I will be able to confidently say my bike does not have a problem....and thats something I thought I might never be able to say.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention the fuel consumption meter has been 10% low now. This would be expected since the meter works through the ECU and injector activations, which would have been programmed for the OEM injector.

Are you guys running the O2 sensor ? Do you have spoffer installed ?

Thanks
Rod

I have Brisk AR10ZS spark plugs and the 124 injector. No other engine related mods, no spoofer, O2 still hooked up, all factory.

Thanks for the info. I have the plugs in and the injector on the way. I have been talking to a brand new husky shop that just opened about the issue, but they can't get KTM to call back on the TR. I will never by anything from KTM or there clones..... ever ! I sure have high hopes this will make my baby happy....fingers crossed

The ECU in your bike will eventually adapt to the larger injector by creating a long term trim that shortens the injectors pulses slightly. It works for a short time and then eventually reverts to stock.

Better sparks plugs could make a difference if they do it may be that the coil voltage to the ignition coil is low or the ECU may be programmed for too little dwell time. That's a tough problem to figure out. It took me about a year of part time debugging to figure out I had to wire my coils through a dedicated relay to eliminate voltage drop in their stock circuit.

if this does actually happen, then one would expect the opposite to happen with the OE injector, "a longer pulse", but I have not seen anything that appears as though its doing this...after resetting adaption values which is when it starts from base line and learns and then does it do it open on open loop or closed...?

Pulstars did make a difference on my bike no question there!

further to my post #61.

I've now had 6 cold starts / warm ups and my bike has not faulted once and I am trying real hard to trip it up. Its starting on the second crank and is behaving like a big old pussy cat,..... I can pull away at idle or below!, open the gas and its all there, no misses, hesitations, roll-on roll-off misses....nothing and dear I say its perfect and I hope it continues.

My next quest is to find and injector with the same delivery volume as the OE but with twin cones, this will put the "consumption"meter back in line and prove if it was more fuel or different / better spray pattern or both that contributed to the improvement.

Note the fact that the consumption meter being low is an extremely good indicator that the ECU is sending shorter injector pulses with the 124 injector.

Roger, it may be worthwhile looking at the research info on the plugs, they are a whole new ball game and cant be compared to conventional plugs, I have all the info I can email to you

perhaps....and the same in reverse. The larger injector can deliver 10% more for same time energised, and since change is noticed immediately, (either way) and given (as I understand it) the ECU is not lightning quick at making trimming changes, I don't thinks it crystal clear as to exactly whats going on here.

I would assume the fuel consumption meter is off because the new injector is adding 10% more fuel. It would make sense the ecu has a limit on the adjustment. Otherwise the ecu could destroy an engine with fuel trimming. Just a thought.

My 124 injector is on it's way.

Lets us know how the injector goes...


I dont think we have a flow meter, so it must be just maths how it works the numbers on consumption.....

Wayne, That's why I said the plugs may make a difference. I would like to see the info, do you still have my email address?

Hasenpfeffer is correct, the consumption is likely reading low because the injectors turn on for a shorter time.

The ECU's adjustment range for trimming (and there are short and long term trims) is probably 20% and maybe as high as 25%, based on the data I have on other bikes. If you were to put to large an injector in, you eat up adjustment range. Here's an example:

Say that a long term trim was 1.00 nominally and could vary from 0.80 to 1.20. Then you put a 15% higher flow injector in place of the stock injector. Your long term trim (all other things being equal) would sit at 0.85 that means it could vary -5% lower and +35% higher. This isn't a good situation and is why increasing the injector size on a closed loop bike isn't a good idea.

Now, say you were going to drop lambda by 5% to 0.95 by using an AF-XIED, also say you were going to run 10% ethanol which is 4% lean so needs an added 4% fuel. Then adding a 10% larger injector would make sense (but is not needed). The 5+4%=9% would very closely match the increased injector size and the trim would run at 0.99, give or take.

The issue of trims and AFR is complex. There are usually ADDITIVE and MULTIPLICATIVE long term trims that compensate different parts of the fuel map for different engine and fueling issues. As a result it takes a lot of thought to make things balance when you make changes.

When I bought my bike new I had the dealer install ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-DYNO-BOO...0-R-/151025357417?hash=item2329d01269&vxp=mtr ). Recently I installed Pulstar spark plugs and the stumble is completely gone, and the bike runs great!

excellent!!, bloody great you got it sorted......are you running the Dyna Boost still?

Yes I am still running the Dyna Boost.

So am I and 15 other TR650 owners I know of, all in the Philippines. So far I have only had positive comments from them all, some are 2-3 months and a few 1000 km down the road with the Dyna-Boost and so far so good. Our opinions may be slightly biased, but for an easy to fit and easily adjustable unit, the Dyna-Boost appears to be a good way to go in fixing the lean stumble issues, particularly in high temperature high humidity climates.

I am still suspicious of the Purge Valve and believe it could be a source of problems especially if it is not working correctly as we found on one bike already.
Shortly I will get home and back to my bike, then I should be able to run some tests to explore the possible link between the Purge Valve opening and the Stumble. As it is only a US Emissions gizmo which is not needed, as far as I am concerned it can all be taken off and the inlet plugged which then removes one more variable from the equation. Plus the removal of the cannister allows the radiator to work more efficiently anyway.

I like the Dyna Boost, l reckon it's a clever idea, not sophisticated in it's appearance, however with proved performance advantages