250-500cc suspension help please 09 with shivers/sachs

ive got a 09 wr300 i recently picked up, and im battling with the forks. ive got the correct springs, correct valving, and oil hieght, yet the small stuff beats the hell out of me especially at slower speeds. it sucks up the bigger stuff really well, but small roots, and rocks it feels very rough. it may be blowing through the top part of the stroke but im not sure. any thoughts? also ive got the correct amount of sag in the rear according to the manual ( 4 inches w/cold shock ) is anyone running anything different? my TXC's we always ran a quarter to half inch more but i tried it on my WR and it felt way off.

heres my set up
.46 springs in the front, 120 mm oil height.
5.6 rear spring, sag is 4 inches.

i way 185ish ( no gear ), race tight single track in A or AA class depening on the series.


thanks for any help

sounds like your fork springs are waaaaaay to stiff! I way 245 and am running a 5.8 and a .48 in front.and they are perfect.Its oversprung thats why its beating the crap out of ya in the small stuff.

thanks for the input!

i ran .44's, before the .46's and it was way to soft, charging corners they woiuld be dam near bottomed out, no matter where the compression or rebound was set. the reccomendation for the .46. came from Enduro Engineering. the bike feels soft in the front when sitting on it, espically in comparison to the rear, but when you ride it, its directly opposite the rear feels nice and plush and the front feels super rough at lower speeds, it really does smoot out at higher speeds. but if i get stuck behing a lapped rider or just traffic in the trail and have to slow down it pounds me to death and makes me get arm pump. i wonder if anyone is modifying the piston in the fork for extra bleed at low speeds before it forces all the oil throught the valving. its im going to try both springs again this weekend. and i may even try the .47's i have in my 450 in the 300 too. what really gets me is the initial part of the stoke (first 3-6 inches) is super soft, i would think it would be stiffer than it is?.....its driving me nuts lol

I'm running the stock 4.5 springs in the forks and a 5.6 on the shock. (I weigh 215 lbs no gear) The SAG comes out right but it acts like you describe with 5w and no re-valve. My complaint is it will kick off the baseball sized rocks especially on downhills which can be scary at fast speeds. I've been considering a re-valve but I've been reluctant to cough up the $. I bought a steering damper to help with an old wrist injury and that helped the handling a little but not a complete solution.

Have WER set up your fork and thank me later.

the valving in the marz. 50mm open chamber forks is the reason you are fighting to hold on to the handlebars.seek professional help from someone that is experienced with those forks for tuning.As mentioned WER should be able to help.dan

well i put about 12 hours on the bike over the weekend and kept on trying to dial it in, and i thought it was realitivly close until i let the guy i train with ride it and he said "i don't know how the hell you are riding this thing", so i sent it out. the suspension has been done professionally by two different companies prior to this, now it is at its third place called motovations, which is here in NC http://www.motovationsracing.com/. i recieved a call from the owner who told me the guy who had worked on this previously must have been high when he put these togather because the internals were not installed properally, he said due to the way the forks were assemebled the first 4 inches of the stroke was completely useless and the rebound adjustment wasnt connected to anything, along with it needing to be valved for me also he said for my weight and riding ability he said i have the correct springs. so i am really excetied to give it a try out the bike with proper working forks at the enduro this weekend. also when i dropped off my 300 i took up my room mates 12 tc449 who had the suspension done at the same place my 300 was last done, when he took the forks on that apart the valving just fell out all over his work bench, apperatnly a there was a bolt missing in both forks that holds in the valving.

Out of curitosity, would the rear shock from my 09 txc450 bolt on my 09 wr300? Its already built for me and works very well.

yup, yup yup!

You have to take them both out an measure them.

The 4 stokes shocks are longer I think...the old pre-08 models were at least.

Just got the forks back from motovations, turns out motovations is owned by Marc Hilton who was Glen Kerneys mechanic, and suspension builder, and Glen's brother Ben does the motor work at motovations, so luckily they are pretty fimiliar with huskies. If this doesnt work ill send them out to WER, but im pretty confident that it will. To be exact on what was done incorrectly to my forks according to Marc was the previous company drilled a bleed hole in the piston, along with having a bleeding shim in the valve stack, causing it to be very very soft. Im heading out to a private 14mi single track we practice at after work ill post up how it goes, and maybe even get some pictures.

R_Little, after talking to some others i believe you are correct, but im going to measure the shocks anyway just to be sure

At least for the open chamber forks, the 09 Marzocchi 50mm came with a large bleed hole in the midvalve piston, and bleed shims all over the place. It's a horrible set-up. Your tuner is right that it can't work that way, but I be he's looking at the stock/factory build. Yuk, yuk, yuk. He sounds like he's all over this problem, and I bet you'll have much better performance when he's done. Please let us know.

i put the bike back togather yesterday and put a hour or so on it. initially where he had the clickers set, where he belived would be a good place to start was no good, it was way to soft and bouncy so i played with the clickers and made it quite nice to ride, and it will work well for the race this weekend. with that being said the compression is almost all the way stiff and the rebound is pretty well maxed as well, so he said he will put a little more agressive valving in it (free of charge) so that i have more adjustment to play with for finer tuning. marc at motovations is a really nice guy, he says to him its not about the money he just wants the rider to be happy with his work so he gaurntees his work to your satisfaction or he says he will work with it for free until its to your liking.

That's a good tuner!

After giving up on sorting these forks without a big spend, I came across "Riders Edge Suspension" in Canada.They manufacture & sell a base valve kit,as far as I know,the only one for the Mazzocchi O.C. Its a big improvement & well worth the $200. They recommended softer springs, but stayed with stock & have no problem.(Too tight to buy any). www.ridersedgesuspension.com

There is a lip in the Zoch that a good suspension tuner will taper.

They are invincible when setup right.

I did bypass the 48mm though and went from an 06 with Zoch 45's to an 11 with KYB 48mm.

I am running .48 front and .58 rear with gold valves up front.

I weigh 230lbs with gear on and tools

Stu

ive been riding and racing it, and playing with the clickers, and it feels pretty nice but its still too soft, im going to take it and have it revalved again, but its free so im not complaining, the spring rate is correct for me but i think its just gonna take a few go arounds with the valving. i wish i had kyb's on my bike, but at the same time if i can get these to feel like the Zoch's i had on my 450's i will be very please, the forks i had on my 08 and 09 txc were better than any of the showa's and kyb's i had on any of my jap bikes, i realize there different forks but i believe i can make these as good

I sold my 09 450 before I "finalized" my forks settings, but had them working way better than stock. IMO, there are two main problems on those 50 Zoke's: There is way too much free bleed at the midvalve (they dive like crazy when you brake), and too small holes in the base valve piston (very hard to reduce the harshness with valve). Also, they come with too much preload on the stock spring. I'm 165 before gear, so the .45 stock springs were way too stiff, although they would be perfect for the right size guy so I don't really consider that a Zoke "problem." However, even for a "right sized guy" you can cut the preload spacers as has been discussed here many times and get a much better baseline.

I have had manufactured a set of larger port base valves. Testing them now on 45mm and 50mm open chamber Zoke's. They will be available for sale if there is interest. Should not be too expensive, but it's valve only. Each person will have to do their own shimming.

Forgot to mention its DIY. Get new base valve & shim stack,pretty easy to install as long as you note the order of things when disassembling.The forks sit higher in the stroke & lose the harshness.