What is the technique for riding down very steep hills? Either I lock-up the rear break and sometimes stall the motor, or I ride down way too fast for comfort, risking a crash. I know enough to apply the rear brake before touching the front. What gear should I be in to creep down in control? Is the compression release helpful in steep descents? Right now, I only use the CR to release compression when spinning the engine over first fire-up with the kick start lever before using the button.
Its all about balance with everything available body pos,brakes, clutch, and even the terrain (always look ahead for safe spots that offer traction or some place to ease up, so you can hit the crappy hard stuff then get back into control in the next "ledge" or safe spot). Use you clutch as a slipper clutch (very important, advanced technique) to keep your skidding to minimal and traction (decel-neg) as maximum in addition to using your brakes, easy on the front brake it eats into your suspension by compressing and loading the forks. Try not getting the rear skidding too much, this also loads up the rear suspension and disconnects you from ground decel traction/slowing down . If there are switch backs or turns then you can slide your back into them and unload as soon as you hit the apex/cut the turn and end up facing the new direction. Ride in crouch/attack position with your butt out and towards and over the back, this opens up your hips and allows for easy movement/weight shifts and movement of the bike under you as well. (James Stewart/Ricky C/Dave Knight among many other top guys, all use this position and Ryan Hughes' Ryno Institute teaches this butt out/open hips position). Try not to load your bars too much either (too much front brake tends to do this) it gets you frozen in the locked straight mode, you want to be able to steer and make corrections just like riding on flat ground, stay loose. As with anything just practice using the clutch as a slipper anywhere even on flat ground then move to descents, after a while it will be second nature to use both brakes and the clutch all together to keep the bike under control on descents that you need to slow down on. Remember to always have an out under all conditions, on hill focus your out to the low side so if you do lose control you slide into the hill not over the high side of the bike. Best of luck, all info I pitched out comes from top level riders much more qualified than me, open hips position, slipper clutch use is from Ryan Hughes (Ryno Institute), easy touch on the bars is from Seb Tortelli (Champ Factory).
All good info for going at a controlled fast pace on steep terrain. A couple of other techniques for going a little slower with a little more control on your back brake is if you are sitting down push your right knee hard against your gas tank and pivot your ankle only to control how much brake pressure is needed not to stall your bike. Standing still is the best, you can use way more body English and get your arse way back over the back wheel. Don't be scared of using your front brake. That's where 80% of your braking is coming from. If you only use your back brake and you lock your back end up on a traverse trail or stall and then your bike locks up from a stalled engine anyway....well. Cover the clutch if you don't have an auto so there is no chance of stalling. The other is don't get fixated on only looking 10' in front. You should be looking way down the trail so your know whats coming.
I would like to add to the question. How about two stroke technique for downhills vs. four stroke technique? As a youngster my dad and I (both on two strokes), would ride Stoneyford with a group that all rode TT500's they would all use the compression release on downhills. For me, move your weight to the rear, easy on the brake and use right gear.
I doubt this is what they teach at the riding schools. Kill the engine so you can hear the chain noise, put in gear and hold in the clutch. Just due to the weight distribution most of your stopping force can be generated on the front wheel but the rear one seems more the one which skids and starts to go to the side. I can tell by the sound of the chain before I can sense this is happening. If you have a 125 two stroke you just let the clutch out and the engine starts at the bottom. Maybe with enough skill and practice my technique doesn't offer any more control. Fran
I have discovered that the front brake is not near as scary as I thought it would be going downhill, within reason. Using only the rear is very ineffective and results in a buildup in speed, a front/rear swap and killing the engine. Combining the front and rear with mostly front brake modulation works like a champ for me at my skill level (not that fast).
Not that this helps but truly gnarly ...I let the bike do what it does and pray and anticipate....I mean if gravity is a constant force...why are we only puckering at the top of a big downhill and not on the way down? I just go for it and trust the bike.
its gets even more dicey when your going down a steep downhill on loose rock.....some good points you folks mention here keep looking far ahead.......plan your path far in advance....know exactly where your going to place the bike.......or specifically where you dont want to place it.......! light touch on the bars..let it tell you what it wants to do very light drag on front brake to keep overall speed in check dabbing the rear constantly just to the lock up point...keeps the bike stable and straight from "rear pull" feather the clutch lightly to avoid stalling.....if it does "pop" the engine back into play....with a quick sit down and release dont panic...if you go offline.....immediately focus to looking far ahead after that its pucker up and hang on
I'm kind of like you Joe. I get into much more trouble trying to think my way down a hill than I do if I just let it happen and ride it out. I generally just focus on where I want to end up and try not to worry to much about the stuff in between because if I concentrate on the obstacles I tend to get target fixation and it's a sure bet I'll head right into the area I wanted to avoid.
For a noob it's not the same as a flat surface mentally. You're going down a steep rocky face covered with grease-like mud with a large fallen pine sprouting 2 ft long pokers blocking the end if you don't make the turn. That was last year on a 510. I was stomping the rear brake and layed it over and slid into a 6 inch stump and flipped onto the downed tree, taking one of those pokers in my chest protector. Now I laugh going by it because I use the front brake right to its limit, against my earlier instinct. Thank you Shane Watts and Richard Ro. Didn't tell the wife about that one or she'd have banned me from all the fun
Other options include: Find another way Have the other person you are riding with ride it down Launch the bike off the hill and walk down Trials tires I hate downhills.
These are what I normally do! Thanks all for really great suggestions. Now I've got to practice, practice, practice! This site is great because of people like you that are willing to help, not snipe. So much better than many others.
I've not read the other answers in detail, but other more serious suggestions would be: Stand up, weight as far back as possible (extend arms) Pivot Pegz - they helped me a great deal - now using the rear brake is much much easier. Not sure if it was because of my bad right ankle, or if it would help everyone.
+1 for Pivot Pegz. They make modulating the the back brake much easier for me. Practice. Once you get used to the front brake feel you will be able to "feel" when it is at the lock-up point. Stand up and weight back. Keep some momentum to help climb the walls of deep ruts and such. As you get more confidence you'll find you can go faster down the hills then you ever though possible.
This makes total sense. Standing with arse back and feathering the foot brake while creeping down hill with rigid pegs is tough for me. PivotPegs would help. Coffee: If you have not done so already, you might think about adding a new section called Riding Technique, and including threads like this in it.
I have a friend that is into Trials bikes.... His nickname is 'Crash' Not sure why when you put that one up Coffee but boy it sure reminds me of him.
Go mountain biking down big gnarley steep hills. That will hone your body position and braking skills fast.
The best way to go down hill is to "drive it down hill". By this I mean it is good to have power on so you can steer. The way I do this is to use all four controls at once. First use front brake but don't lock it up. Second use back brake, and here's the trick: If you keep adding throttle while feathering the back break the rear wheel will not lock up and you can control the breaking power of the rear brake and also be able to steer the bike. You will find that applying throttle to just overcome rear braking enough to avoid locking up the wheel will make the bike "stand up" and steer. Also, keep your hand on the clutch and feather it according to how much you want to control the throttle. All this sounds complicated but try it on some gradual hills first and you might find it works well. I used to be more afraid of hills than anything because I would have to commit to a straight line descent. By being able to steer and drive through course corrections without giving up all braking has made hills much easier to navigate. Also, I use this technique of throttle over rear braking when going into deep sand high speed turns. It keeps me from washing out from rear braking only, and somehow makes the bike "stand up" for the turn. If I feel I am going to slow to keep going in the sand, I just keep the brake the same and twist on more throttle. Probably wears out my brakes sooner, but thirty dollar pads are usually cheaper than a crash. Harvey
"Driving it down hill" definitely will take some practice! Thanks for the suggestion, I'll try it on some gentle descents, before anything steep. I was thinking about riding steep descents with PivotPegs, but suspect that descending with arse back will pivot my brake foot away from the brake lever, making rear brake control worse.
