USA ISDE World Trophy Team... What will it take to win?

[Norman Foley]

I'll preface this by saying, I have the greatest respect for all involved in the USA ISDE effort....

Is the USA ever going to win the World Trophy? The Trophy Team has definitely improved in the last 10 years, but now seems at a level.... Bottom step of the podium or just off it. Great hope for the Team, with KTM Off Road Manager Antti Kallonen taking on the Team's management, but we ended up about the same as previous years.
What do you think it's going to take, for it to go to the top step. Is it still a format question? Do we need to bring back the AMA National Reliability/Qualifier Series and really format it like EWC to get riders used to it and up to speed? Even the Start Control format of NEPG doesn't really fit EWC/ISDE format. Trophy team guys don't even ride Qualifiers anymore.

 

[pat ohara]

Thanks Norm, food for thought. The British xc races are almost a mirror image of the EWC format for each class as are the Juniors programs across Europe. I will defer to the old heads as i'm sure they have some very astute opinions.

 

[robertaccio]

I wish we would just go to the FIM regulation 2 day events (and just use FIM standards). Ive done only a few "qualifier" type events and for us normal riders and pros alike it seems to be a great form (but I guess its still not 100% FIM style compliant), it has helped me in my old age to feel safe and fresh to ride hard and fast(as I can go) as S/Ts come up in between transfer sections.
I still think the style of riding, the technique employed by the top level guys from EU and Australia as well, is different than the US guys who still have more of the point brake and shoot style. Those French guys with some exception are super smooth as well as other WEC champion riders like Juha, Merriman,Sala etc etc and king of French smooth Peterhansel.
Hey but Caselli has OA the E2 class in the past, but I still think he uses more energy to get there than his comparable opposition players. Getting used to FIM comp tires and using them throughout the year as well as using FIM spec machines would probably help as well (thats why my 310 is set up in FIM WEC legal mode, so when the trophy team calls me up I'll be ready..........hahaha)

 

[robertaccio]

also remember our national federation does not fund these events like some of the foreign nat feds .

 

[Norman Foley]

Wattsy's reply on KTM Talk.....

"G'day Everyone,

Shane Watts here again - the posting privileges from my own account are still banned so I'll use my brother's account again.

The only way for the US to ever win is to conduct a Sprint (special test) race series (at least 6 events during the 6-8 months prior to the ISDE) and have all of the top guys attend it so as they can improve/refine their "sprint" speed on ISDE style special test courses. Basically that is what the National C'ship in Oz is now - need proof of the results from that type of racing, just check this year's ISDE results!

The US National Enduro courses essentially aren't the same as ISDE test, except for maybe the sand section at the MO race, and the grass track at the PA race.

The US riders are fast at the ISDE, and very fast at their own specific events in the US. Until they get a race series of fast, flowing, true 3rd-4th gear wide open special test (approx 5-12 min long) their collective group of Trophy team riders at the ISDE will only ever be "fast" and able of a 3rd-5th team finish position, not a "very fast" 1st-3rd finish position.

I have had deep thoughts of promoting a series like this in the US but unfortunately for me it isn't going to happen due to our slammed DirtWise school schedule. Would love to make it happen though - Sprint races are so awesome!!!

Keep on roosting,

Shane Watts"

 

[boisedave]

I think Wattsy is spot on. Props to our guys for doing well in essentially a format of racing that is unfamiliar. In the end though, specialization is key. It shouldn't really surprise anyone that to do well at a type of racing -- you need to immerse yourself in it. We don't have it here -- so its no surprise we are a bit off pace.

The real question is -- why is there no sprint race series like Wattsy said? Probably a thousand different reasons really-- but I speculate that true two day sprint races like these would probably be not all that well attended by casual racers. Even Idaho City -- which gets solid turnout -- hasn't been sold completely out. Cost, expense play a role for sure. Finding clubs to do this can be difficult. In the end, I think the brutality of the events sort of prices them out of the market so to speak. I've raced Idaho City before and attended as a spectator too. At most races, nearly half of the B-Riders DNF. So its hard to sell that race to the less experienced riders out there -- you are left with a much small pool of guys that are serious. You need the less expereinced guys to get the event to pencil out. The clubs would be well advised to loosen up a bit and cater to the less experienced and make it fun for them too.

Just my $0.02.

 

[Joe Chod]

If some promoter brought back something like the old AMA National Reliability/Qualifier Series (ut used FIM standards) and formatted it like EWC

I bekieve the Start Control format of NEPG doesn't really fit EWC/ISDE format. Some of Trophy team guys don't even ride Qualifiers as a pre-requisite anymore. I agree a (special test) race series of several events during the 6-8 months prior to the ISDE. Ideally an all offroad race series of fast, flowing, wide open special test that are about 5 to 10 minutes long. NEPG is longer and tighter....fine for training on transfer sections on the "A" schedule but not the same. Appears our WORCCS series lends to something like what I am saying and this is evident by the pros that do it also perform well in ISDE.
It is all about $$ though. I mean the operational costs. Same in NASCAR or F1 RACING. THERE ARE TEAMS BUT WITH SPONSOR HORSEPOWER BEHIND THEM. MX sells in US and it gets the cash cow. US winner at a national enduro makes the same for winning as a local AA MX guy who racers 2 classes on any Sunday. Our national federation does not fund these events like some of the foreign nat groups. Outside sponsors would help us and not just bike related. Anyone remeber when Subway sandwhiches were big for McGrath or even 1800 collect? All money is green.
It will take a promoter group to build it and invest in it but I think if they built it ....they would come.

 

[robertaccio]

What Watts said, whatever that guy says I'll listen........ and of course skinny old guy Joe C kicks in with well educated logic, reality checks and solutions. As usual money in sports as well in any biz (politics included) is usually the solution to going forward in a successful direction.
I demand Subway sponsorship!!! Or any food related title sponsor will work for me, supplementary some brand of alcohol works too(beer,wine or spirits all good!!)

I was going to add this Joe got to it and it is important
"Our national federation does not fund these events (or ISDE team travel and expenses) like some of the foreign nat groups."
PS I know alot of here gave cash to individual ISDE participants that's good stuff, just want to let y'all know, we did also give to the general team fund through team leader Kurt.

Many EU(and other) governments even recognize Enduro as Nat sport and for example the Italian pro guys can do their mandatory state/Military service as pro racer wearing the Fiamme D'oro, Polizia dello Stato, Guardia di Finanze, etc jerseys (you'll notice some of them wearing those jerseys in the Italian Nationals even if they race WEC in specific team colors)
Joe there's an angle!! US Army (US Marines etc etc etc) sponsored riders, remember Drag racing! Good recruiting angle.

 

[LandofMotards]

Why is Shane Watts posting privlages gone on KTM talk? Lol I had to ask

 

[robertaccio]

Because he has never been politically correct in any matters. Hes calls things as he sees them. I dont always agree with the man but thats way it goes hes a real classic!! Respect for Wattsy big time.

 

[ray_ray]

I know very little about enduro racing in the states and even less on this type racing ... But I'd say you guys have it figured out ... Seems like it boils down to $$ and practice in some of this specialized areas ...

SX\ MX racing probably gets the bulk of the advertising $ today in the states ... They might be willing to spread some of their $ around if they were made aware ...

I gotta add one more thing ... Some of the videos of the guys in the grass fields railing the berms were f'ing crazy fast ...

 

[robertaccio]

Easy, 'What Will It Take To Win?" GO FASTER EVERYWHERE AND ON EVERY MINUTE OF EVERYDAY. simple answer.

 

[pat ohara]

Wattsy's reply on KTM Talk.....

"G'day Everyone,

Shane Watts here again - the posting privileges from my own account are still banned so I'll use my brother's account again.

The only way for the US to ever win is to conduct a Sprint (special test) race series (at least 6 events during the 6-8 months prior to the ISDE) and have all of the top guys attend it so as they can improve/refine their "sprint" speed on ISDE style special test courses. Basically that is what the National C'ship in Oz is now - need proof of the results from that type of racing, just check this year's ISDE results!

The US National Enduro courses essentially aren't the same as ISDE test, except for maybe the sand section at the MO race, and the grass track at the PA race.

The US riders are fast at the ISDE, and very fast at their own specific events in the US. Until they get a race series of fast, flowing, true 3rd-4th gear wide open special test (approx 5-12 min long) their collective group of Trophy team riders at the ISDE will only ever be "fast" and able of a 3rd-5th team finish position, not a "very fast" 1st-3rd finish position.

I have had deep thoughts of promoting a series like this in the US but unfortunately for me it isn't going to happen due to our slammed DirtWise school schedule. Would love to make it happen though - Sprint races are so awesome!!!

Keep on roosting,

Shane Watts"

Take a read in the latest issue of Dirt Rider with an interview by Chris Dennison and a KTM employee visa via WEC enduro champ it is very illuminating. I say that watching for yrs. the Euro's style and approach has been a matter to school ourself by. Seistola uses physics and momentum as evidenced by the Vimeo and You-Tube films while we are billy-burmshot's, quite a difference. The proof of this approach is in the Juniors where the British and French were only separated by a mere minute and one half with the American team an hr. behind wow, and our Juniors are super riders.Back in the old days their style of riding was thought to be too workman like, guess it pays off on the big stage. It would be nice for a series format like it wouldn't it ? Anyway whatever; food for thought.

 

[Vinduro]

I have been banned a couple times by JEB on KTMtalk myself. He trys to pass himself off as an expert and will ban anyone who challanges him on his untruths. He has no background in racing or even motorcycle mechanics. He is now trying to tell everyone that E10 ethanol doesn't cause any engine problems or seal / oring deteriation.

 

[Kreza]

Since the I in ISDE stands for International, go the Aussie's. Our captain is Glen Kearney who rides a Husky by the way, some of you in the states might already know of him??

 

[pointman449]

one can never talk of the six day event without the mention of one of its all time greats , fred hoess, this year in germany he rode a 250 husqvarna and he made a great impression on those who got a chance to watch this man race. 21 consecutive isde races with 17 gold medals. pretty impressive.
i my humble opinion the six day event has never had any really good news coverage, this years event is the prime example of how little news gets out during the event. one would think that only ktm bikes were used and that only the trophy teams are racing, little is done to show the world how many excellent riders are on the club teams, and even less is done to explain how they all end up there. cycle news, dirt rider, isde tv and the rest should not only cover the trophy teams , i do understand we want the trophy teams to do well , but i think that some of the best riders are not on those teams , i also am a person that roots for the underdog, the person that gets there and races despite all of the hardships the annual event causes he or she and their families.
let these media dogs know that we want to see more of the isde and we want to see all of our reps there, not just the ktm mounts!
that is all...................

 

[pat ohara]

one can never talk of the six day event without the mention of one of its all time greats , fred hoess, this year in germany he rode a 250 husqvarna and he made a great impression on those who got a chance to watch this man race. 21 consecutive isde races with 17 gold medals. pretty impressive.
i my humble opinion the six day event has never had any really good news coverage, this years event is the prime example of how little news gets out during the event. one would think that only ktm bikes were used and that only the trophy teams are racing, little is done to show the world how many excellent riders are on the club teams, and even less is done to explain how they all end up there. cycle news, dirt rider, isde tv and the rest should not only cover the trophy teams , i do understand we want the trophy teams to do well , but i think that some of the best riders are not on those teams , i also am a person that roots for the underdog, the person that gets there and races despite all of the hardships the annual event causes he or she and their families.
let these media dogs know that we want to see more of the isde and we want to see all of our reps there, not just the ktm mounts!
that is all...................

Well said, there is so much to the event that deserves media attention and ours also. Perhaps we would have a better involvement if it got the attention it deserves for everyone that enters not just the KTM riders. Lazy press core. Fred Hoess is a treasure, no coverage or coverage of Go-Fasters teams either. Holy Smokes can you imagine a Gold and what that represents as an accomplishment, well Duh! Easier to get a photo of some jump monkey on a Yamaguchi. The club teams and Juniors are amazing, the British press covers all riders very well because of their belief in fair play and we should do the same. Fred is the Adolf Weil of ISDE.