1987 430xc motor basket case looking for advice

[husky jim]

Starting a 1987 430xc motor build to put in a 1987 250wr frame.I aquired this motor in a purcase with another parts bike so I know nothing about it. Will be used mostly in the tight woods with alot of 1st and 2nd gear. I'm wanting to make a total tractor that can still cruise easy at 60mph. I was thinking about using the 1st - 4th gears out of a 250wr and keeping 5th-6th gears 430xc. Anyone ever tried changing the gears around? I was also wondering is it worth getting the crank balanced to reduce vibes? Any advice or suggestions are welcome, I'm all ears!

 

[husqyhamm]

You dont change gearbox gears on these engines. You change the clutch baskets and primary drive gears.
On pre 87 XC I swapped them all for WR setup ie. 33/76 and run 13/53 sprockets for a bike with very short 1-3 rock-climbing and enduro gearing and still topspeed of round 80mph. 14/53 sprockets nice for medium riding and if you want to get back to XC kinda ratios you run 16/53. Very flexible WR setup where-as XC is extremely limiting.

I have 87 XC clutchbasket(77t if i can remember offhand) minus crank drive-gear lost by my favourite machine shop. PLEASE count the teeth on your basket and primary drive gears, as well as the teeth on back of basket ( i think 18), clutch idler gear and kickstart gear. Id love to have that info and can work from there.

 

[fran...k.]

You are pretty much stuck with 87-88 primary drive unless you change the input shaft

From what I see notably the kick gear it looks like a nice set of parts.

I am pretty sure the fifth ans sixth are the same in those combinations listed in post #1 check and see in the parts sheets. The third gear on the input shaft is the problem gear on those six speeds. if the tooth faces don't have defects then the prongs on the engagement dogs and the holes on the next gear they go into most likely will. Last year that third gear was still a good part # I almost got one just to hoard but bought another whole transmission off ebay the guy posted some good pictures of instead. I don't see why you couldn't get a bit closer ratio transmission by using some of the 250 parts but my third gears from 250 bikes weren't any better.

Is ther a picture of an elephant on the rod? Just asking because the last one I had apart had an elephant on the rod but I suspect it had been changed though not sure.

What I have decided on doing is to run a 12 tooth front sprocket which puts fourth gear as the most common place to be in the type of riding I think you are describing. This takes the wear off of third and both of the gears on fourth are just about the same size. This isn't for the earlier primary drive ratio though the same logic might well apply to not worry about the chain and sprocket but worry about the engine components.

Tractors have torque rise. They are rated at a certain rpm horsepower say 2200 rpm to give 540 pto rpm and as load draws down the rpm torque increases by like 30% by the time it gets to 1700 rpm. It is fun to think tractor but not realistic.

One more suggestion, check those rods the shift forks go on for straightness the one with two shift forks on it hasn't been totally straight in a few of the engines I have dis assembled.

fran

 

[husky jim]

You dont change gearbox gears on these engines. You change the clutch baskets and primary drive gears.
On pre 87 XC I swapped them all for WR setup ie. 33/76 and run 13/53 sprockets for a bike with very short 1-3 rock-climbing and enduro gearing and still topspeed of round 80mph. 14/53 sprockets nice for medium riding and if you want to get back to XC kinda ratios you run 16/53. Very flexible WR setup where-as XC is extremely limiting.

I have 87 XC clutchbasket(77t if i can remember offhand) minus crank drive-gear lost by my favourite machine shop. PLEASE count the teeth on your basket and primary drive gears, as well as the teeth on back of basket ( i think 18), clutch idler gear and kickstart gear. Id love to have that info and can work from there.

The crank gear has 33 teeth, the basket has 76 teeth and 18 teeth on the back

 

[husky jim]

You are pretty much stuck with 87-88 primary drive unless you change the input shaft

From what I see notably the kick gear it looks like a nice set of parts.

I am pretty sure the fifth ans sixth are the same in those combinations listed in post #1 check and see in the parts sheets. The third gear on the input shaft is the problem gear on those six speeds. if the tooth faces don't have defects then the prongs on the engagement dogs and the holes on the next gear they go into most likely will. Last year that third gear was still a good part # I almost got one just to hoard but bought another whole transmission off ebay the guy posted some good pictures of instead. I don't see why you couldn't get a bit closer ratio transmission by using some of the 250 parts but my third gears from 250 bikes weren't any better.

Is ther a picture of an elephant on the rod? Just asking because the last one I had apart had an elephant on the rod but I suspect it had been changed though not sure.

What I have decided on doing is to run a 12 tooth front sprocket which puts fourth gear as the most common place to be in the type of riding I think you are describing. This takes the wear off of third and both of the gears on fourth are just about the same size. This isn't for the earlier primary drive ratio though the same logic might well apply to not worry about the chain and sprocket but worry about the engine components.

Tractors have torque rise. They are rated at a certain rpm horsepower say 2200 rpm to give 540 pto rpm and as load draws down the rpm torque increases by like 30% by the time it gets to 1700 rpm. It is fun to think tractor but not realistic.

One more suggestion, check those rods the shift forks go on for straightness the one with two shift forks on it hasn't been totally straight in a few of the engines I have dis assembled.

fran

You're right I did some checking and the diference is in 1st - 3rd, 4th - 6th are the same number of cogs. The difference is in the primary gears and 1st - 3rd.

No elephant on the crank. There is a R on one side and 130 5752 on the other. The parts look to be in good shape.

Have any experience with balancing the cranks or raising the compression on these motors?

 

[fran...k.]

I tried the head off a dual shock water cooled 400 which has a number cast into it and has a smaller dome and it didn't work out any better and was harder to start. I bought a few more 400 heads off ebay to carve a bit of a squish band into but just got 430 heads not stamped 430. With that 12 tooth sprocket and a 500 head makes a nice deep woods set up for the kind of riding where you might put your foot down while moving. The bike that higher compression head came from had a hole burned in the piston. Another guy maybe a year or so ago had a 400 with a virtually similar hole but wouldn't state whether he had that head with the numbers cast into it.

Fran

 

[maddog82]

Another guy maybe a year or so ago had a 400 with a virtually similar hole but wouldn't state whether he had that head with the numbers cast into it.

Fran

I think that was me. My head does not have any numbers cast in it.

http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/what-caused-this-burned-piston.19216/

 

[husky jim]

I tried the head off a dual shock water cooled 400 which has a number cast into it and has a smaller dome and it didn't work out any better and was harder to start. I bought a few more 400 heads off ebay to carve a bit of a squish band into but just got 430 heads not stamped 430. With that 12 tooth sprocket and a 500 head makes a nice deep woods set up for the kind of riding where you might put your foot down while moving. The bike that higher compression head came from had a hole burned in the piston. Another guy maybe a year or so ago had a 400 with a virtually similar hole but wouldn't state whether he had that head with the numbers cast into it.

Fran

Went riding all weekend at C.H. member Briggs's place, he has a Nasty 7.5 mile loop. Mostly rode my Ktm, but I did bring my 87 430wr (in avitar) and rode it for the first time today on trails. I didn't have hand savers and I didn't want to lay it down so I was being rather conservative. I had NO problems climbing any hill at any speed. I could n't believe the how much more low end it has over my 88 250wr. After riding the 430 I don't think I need change any thing. But would still like to check into balancing the crank.

 

[husky jim]

Got the motor back friday from our local Husky Guru. After doing a little research, I found that the 250 and the 430 shared 4th - 6th but 1st - 3rd were different. I used the 250s 1st- 3rd and the 430 primarys.

250 430

1st 14:33 13:34
2nd 17:29 16:29
3rd 20:26 19:26
4th 23:24 23:24

number of cogs, ( main shaft: auxillary shaft)


Primary trans ratio (crank: main shaft) 250 (30:79) 430 (33:76).






Unfortunately it will be replacing my auto.

 

[John Archer]

i just bought an 86 400xc. the top end has been changed to a 500 and I got a running 87 430 parts bike with the deal. What does not make much sense is the 430 has a 17" rim on it. (tire is beefy) i clearly know the advantage of the 18" over 19" off road but have not seen a 17". Does anyone have experience with running this size.

 

[troublemaker]

From what I have seen the 250's came with the 17in rear wheel,the 430 came with 18's

 

[husky jim]

From what I have seen the 250's came with the 17in rear wheel,the 430 came with 18's

All my 250s and 430s wr & cr came with a 18". My 1986 Husky racing handbook has all Huskys even the 125s at a 18" rear wheel. The Jap 125s used a 17". Maybe some of the late 70s early 80s Husky's came with a 17. Look on the rim if it's a Nordisk and it should be. It will have a date code on it.

 

[Michel Dufayard]

Got the motor back friday from our local Husky Guru. After doing a little research, I found that the 250 and the 430 shared 4th - 6th but 1st - 3rd were different. I used the 250s 1st- 3rd and the 430 primarys.

250 430

1st 14:33 13:34
2nd 17:29 16:29
3rd 20:26 19:26
4th 23:24 23:24

number of cogs, ( main shaft: auxillary shaft)


Primary trans ratio (crank: main shaft) 250 (30:79) 430 (33:76).


View attachment 17084View attachment 17085



Unfortunately it will be replacing my auto.

View attachment 17087View attachment 17086View attachment 17088

Nice 430 auto motors collection !
I see you have a 250 long stroke ( 70.8 mm).
A guy in France put the 250 head and cylinder ( long stroke) on his
430 ae bottom end to have a 250 ae LC.
He oversize it with a bigger piston to get 280 cm3.

 

[husky jim]

Nice 430 auto motors collection !
I see you have a 250 long stroke ( 70.8 mm).
A guy in France put the 250 head and cylinder ( long stroke) on his
430 ae bottom end to have a 250 ae LC.
He oversize it with a bigger piston to get 280 cm3.

I was wondering when you were going to notice the collection.
I plan on only having one auto and one backup motor. I'll be selling the rest of my spares to fund another project, a 198? 510. What year do you think it is? Previous owner states its a 1989,
but Husky did not import in 1989 so I think maybe 1990.

 

[John Archer]

the rim is nordisk like all the others. i found the date code on the rim (thanks) says its an 81. i am going to run it on my next ride and see what the difference is.

 

[Michel Dufayard]

1989 !
The twin exhaust (one under and one up) is 89.


90 you have water pump on the head,
and the mud guards and others things are differents


90 you have an oil hose ( DURITE) from crankcase to back of the rod.
(on my pic the 90 bottom end is with a 84 top end)

 

[Michel Dufayard]

I was wondering when you were going to notice the collection.
I plan on only having one auto and one backup motor. I'll be selling the rest of my spares to fund another project, a 198? 510. What year do you think it is? Previous owner states its a 1989,
but Husky did not import in 1989 so I think maybe 1990.
View attachment 17211View attachment 17209View attachment 17212View attachment 17214

You like fishing and it works ! LOL

 

[husky jim]

You like fishing and it works ! LOL

Thanks, did some research and looks like its an 1989 "b" model.
Does the 89 have an oiling issue, is that the reason for the hose?
Let me know if you interested in the auto parts. I'll be listing them later today or tommorow.

 

[Michel Dufayard]

With the RAL system ( reed activated lubrification) ( no real oilpump ), 510 had problems since 83 with rod lubrification.
So the oil hose is here to improve that problem.
You can find 90+ crankcases with the hole or drill yourself one.
One of my friend did that on his 84 510.

 

[silverpilen]

With the RAL system ( reed activated lubrification) ( no real oilpump ), 510 had problems since 83 with rod lubrification.
So the oil hose is here to improve that problem.
You can find 90+ crankcases with the hole or drill yourself one.
One of my friend did that on his 84 510.

Yes, I thought about doing that to my 83 510, but wondered how it actually works. What pressurises the oil line to feed oil up into the back of the crankcase to lubricate the big end? Does oil get sucked up when the piston moves up?