430 premix oil and ratio

[Wildebeest90210]

I'm sure this has been covered before but I wonder if I can just get a definitive answer for the 81/82 430 (standard tune). A recommended oil (available in UK) and premix ratio.
Engine just fully rebuilt, all new bearings using a piston/ring/barrel thats good and run in.
Thanks. (or a link to a previous thread)

 

[visiteur1948]

for me !
1.6 liter oil motor 5W/40W ..(20 w recomanded)
front forks 430 ml 15W oil DEXRON III (430 ml 20 W
recomanded )

 

['87 500XC]

40:1 is the standard ratio that "works" for everything. Some say run 60:1 (IMO way too lean) some say run 32:1 or even 20:1 (both way too rich IMO)

40:1 is safe, won't blow too much spooge out the exhaust and also won't oil foul your plug. I've run 40:1 mixed with Bell Ray H1R since I started riding and never have had a failure. My fathers been running that mixture since he was racing and riding in the 70's right up to now and has never had a failure.

 

['87 500XC]

for me !
1.6 liter oil motor 5W/40W ..(20 w recomanded)
front forks 430 ml 15W oil DEXRON III (430 ml 20 W
recomanded )

Wow...

 

[visiteur1948]

yes ! and 2 % pre-mix gas tank
oil bel ray or MOTUL !

 

[stormer254]

What ever oil ratio you decide and I stick at 25 to 1 ( 4%) for all my classic bikes, some on vegetable, some mineral oil, you will need to check your mixture as changing the amount of oil will change the fuel air ratio!

 

[husky jim]

I'm sure this has been covered before but I wonder if I can just get a definitive answer for the 81/82 430 (standard tune). A recommended oil (available in UK) and premix ratio.
Engine just fully rebuilt, all new bearings using a piston/ring/barrel thats good and run in.
Thanks. (or a link to a previous thread)

Not sure about the air cooled, but L.C. book says 20:1 and to breaking in a new motor at 16:1 I run all my huskys at 20:1 My 88 250wr (I bought new) has by far the most miles on it. Had the crank seals replaced last year and the builder said my crank and rod bearings were perfect. Replaced the original piston about 10 years ago. I'v been using 2 different oils for about the last 12 years. I started buying Pennzoil Marine senthetic blend because I could buy it in the gallon jug for my jet-ski. I also use Quick Silver Marine because it is sold at the little gas station were I ride. I don't think it matters so much about brand as long as you use enough. 20:1 I swear by it and I never foul a plug.



Used and Abused every chance I get!

 

[HVA_Moto]

I don't think there will ever be agreement on this matter...here is my point of view. 30 years ago used Belray MC1 at 50:1 and never had any problem. After restoring my 250 CR I read many articles on this topic written by knowledgeable engine experts and the evidence (facts) support using a ratio around 20-25:1, 32:1 max. The additional oil actually helps the rings seal better and this in part leads to increased power output (proven on back to back dyno runs), cooler motor running temp and a cleaner piston crown & head. The secret is getting your carby jetting correct for the fuel/oil mixture being used. Many say using such a rich fuel/oil mixture leads to unburnt oil and black spooge coming out of the muffler...or maybe that the plug will foul...I repeat this is because the jetting is incorrect, the motor can be jetted to run clean with just about any fuel/oil ratio. Just think about it this way...no 2 stroke ever seized or blew up because of to much oil but many have been damaged by not enough oil, again this is probably caused by incorrect carb jetting, using less oil simply makes it easier for jetting or climatic conditions to adversely affect your motor. The old Belray MC1 could be used at lean fuel/oil ratios because it was a very heavy base oil (MC-1 has a viscosity of 235 Centistokes (Cst) @ 40c (100F). On the other hand their other synthetic products are less than a quarter (a fifth or 20% of the thickness) of MC-1.........between 40-50 Cst @ 40c (SAE10W-20). But like I said, better to use more of a lighter base oil and get your jetting sorted...your motor will appreciate it. If you read your Husky owners book from back then they recommend 25:1, what makes people think that Husky did not understand what fuel/oil ratio to use. You should search for the article by Gordon Jennings written back in the late 70's I think...interesting reading. I am aware that manufactures of many modern 2 strokes specify 40:1 etc. but maybe the modern motors use different tolerances, liquid cooling, alloy coated bores, power valves and so on... I don't think it automatically means that this is best for the old motors.

 

[dumbdotdog]

I like 20-1, 25-1 simply because I want the big end rod bearing to last as long as possible. People forget that the only lubrication the r/s crank bearing and rod bearing get is what you mix with the gas.

 

[John Archer]

i run 40:1 in everything with motorex oil. never had a problem. but lets all remember that engine failure in 2 stokes is not always the mix's fault. Owner negligence is.

 

[Wildebeest90210]

Thats a lot of info to digest. I will take note(fuelling etc), any ideas of the best UK available oil to use? Can't get Bel Ray, 20 years ago I used a really nice rich red Silkolene 2 stroke oil. Is it still recommended?

 

['87 500XC]

Not sure about the air cooled, but L.C. book says 20:1 and to breaking in a new motor at 16:1 I run all my huskys at 20:1 My 88 250wr (I bought new) has by far the most miles on it. Had the crank seals replaced last year and the builder said my crank and rod bearings were perfect. Replaced the original piston about 10 years ago. I'v been using 2 different oils for about the last 12 years. I started buying Pennzoil Marine senthetic blend because I could buy it in the gallon jug for my jet-ski. I also use Quick Silver Marine because it is sold at the little gas station were I ride. I don't think it matters so much about brand as long as you use enough. 20:1 I swear by it and I never foul a plug.

View attachment 17419

Used and Abused every chance I get!

Tip number one,

Don't take advice from someone who changes there piston every 10 years.

That's terrible, and piss poor maintenance. I don't care what kind of oil you're using. Going that long on a piston is just plain bad. With as used and abused as your bike looks you should change a piston every year.

Racers change there piston once or twice a season (talking about non profesionals, A class Harescrambles etc) Then ontop of that you're using marine oil and in synthetic blend which means....It's NOT full synthetic which again is bad.

I'm glad you haven't had any failures, I honestly am glad but in the brief explanation your just gave us I can see you're not too keen on maintenance, atleast not on that bike.

The topic of pre-mix ratio will rage on forever, I myself will continue to run 40:1 with bel ray H1R, burns nice and clean not too much blue smoke but enough, doesn't drool out the muffler like some peoples bikes do, doesn't completely oil soak the muffler packing so when you turn the bike off the muffler smokes and smolders for the next hour, I could go on but I'll refrain.

Wildebeest use whatever you want, apparently marine 2 stroke oil is the best stuff out there (must be why all the top manufacturers reccomend Motorex, Bel Ray, Motul, etc) They obviously don't know what they're talking about.

 

[husky jim]

Tip number one,

Don't take advice from someone who changes there piston every 10 years.

That's terrible, and piss poor maintenance. I don't care what kind of oil you're using. Going that long on a piston is just plain bad. With as used and abused as your bike looks you should change a piston every year.

Racers change there piston once or twice a season (talking about non profesionals, A class Harescrambles etc) Then ontop of that you're using marine oil and in synthetic blend which means....It's NOT full synthetic which again is bad.

I'm glad you haven't had any failures, I honestly am glad but in the brief explanation your just gave us I can see you're not too keen on maintenance, atleast not on that bike.

The topic of pre-mix ratio will rage on forever, I myself will continue to run 40:1 with bel ray H1R, burns nice and clean not too much blue smoke but enough, doesn't drool out the muffler like some peoples bikes do, doesn't completely oil soak the muffler packing so when you turn the bike off the muffler smokes and smolders for the next hour, I could go on but I'll refrain.

Wildebeest use whatever you want, apparently marine 2 stroke oil is the best stuff out there (must be why all the top manufacturers reccomend Motorex, Bel Ray, Motul, etc) They obviously don't know what they're talking about.

Obviously you missed the whole point D Head. You should run the ratio that the book calls for unless you think your smarter than the engineer who designed the thing.

 

[Bengt Husky]

Thats a lot of info to digest. I will take note(fuelling etc), any ideas of the best UK available oil to use? Can't get Bel Ray, 20 years ago I used a really nice rich red Silkolene 2 stroke oil. Is it still recommended?

Hello mate,

I'm runnning my '82 430 on 40:1. Best oil I've used that I can get in the UK (to date) is Rock oil.

Just hope mine is going to be ready to race this weejend and the King of the castle.

Tank thread stripped and no spark from the magneto...

 

[firecrackerkid]

Here is what I hope will be considered universally reasonable advice. Find out what the local guys use, brand and %. Especially the friends you will be riding with. There are so many experts and everyone believes they have the best advice. What is really important is using what your friends use and jet accordingly. That way when you run out of gas you can get a few ounces from your buddy without worrying. ***Now with that said don't listen to the guy who takes the no name 30wt. and counts by the glug as he dumps it in the tank! If those are the guys you ride with, find some new riding partners! **** I used to mix religiously at 50-1, for years with no failures. Now my brothers run 32-1 so I do too. There is so much good info here on this board that with some diligent searching you can come up with a baseline jet config for the most widely used ratios.
Good Luck, looking forward to continued posts.
Geary

 

[suprize]

my two bobs worth... (Australian for "my opinion on this topic for what it may be worth"......) I used silkolene in the 80's at 50:1 no worries. At the time i was labelled a heretic! Now i am running the Husky on 100:1 motorex and ~75: 1 motul (out of motorex and not sure how effective the motul is!.) not sure what will happen but it runs crisp and tidy (still blowing a touch of smoke). I note the dyno facts ie more oil better running but this contradicts initial work on synthetic oil at high ratios in that there is more fuel per charge and should run cooler? beats me. But I will settle on ~ 75:1 for both oils as I run the kato 300 out of the same drum.
Why a 100 to 1?? It is run by the ktm importer jeff leisk in his 2-s in the West aussie desert.. cant get a better test than that! 5 days flat out riding... no issues. My bike (ktm) is just on two years old and is getting a new piston and ring (its second ring), so will get to see inside soon and see if its been a good thing or a crying shame, the real test. I use 100ml per 10 litres so its also good economy.

I would start the 430 on a solid diet of motorex at 30 to 1 on start up and then lean it off to 50 - 60 :1. See how it likes it? I remember some aircooled huskies having some trouble with the bel ray synthetic oil in the 80's but the silkolene with the octane boost was good gear. two years of racing and i only needed 1 piston and two sets of rings.

cant wait to see it a goer, been a bigger event than the carbon tax! cheers

 

[HVA_Moto]

Rock Oil-Synthesis 2 Racing, full synthetic...good product. Trivial, but this oil even has a nice castor like smell unlike some synthetics which have a nasty smell. Rock Oil is a UK family owned company, been in the oil business since 1928 so you might as well support a "home grown company"...check the web site. The oil brand thing is pretty much a similar story to the fuel/oil mix ratios i.e. everyone has their own favourite for what ever reason and opinion will be forever divided.

 

[Wildebeest90210]

Had no idea this subject would be so divisive. I guess I will have to get my own preference based on info collected here and drag up some memories from years ago. That RD/Z400 that siezed at 90mph, that X7 that spat a piece of piston out that hit my buddy square in the middle of his visor, the DT that cooked the little end running cooking oil. I got one oversize left on the Husky so some room for experimentation.
Thanks for all the input, enjoying collecting the wealth of experience. (More still welcome by the way)

 

[adam6402]

Any good two stroke oil will do unless your superstitious or religious about it will do just fine. Ive run different brands and anywhere between 20 and 30 to 1. And no I'm not "A" class rider, so I will likely refresh my top end once a millennium assuming my carb/jetting is dialed in.


Cheers!

 

[adam6402]

Had no idea this subject would be so divisive. I guess I will have to get my own preference based on info collected here and drag up some memories from years ago. That RD/Z400 that siezed at 90mph, that X7 that spat a piece of piston out that hit my buddy square in the middle of his visor, the DT that cooked the little end running cooking oil. I got one oversize left on the Husky so some room for experimentation.
Thanks for all the input, enjoying collecting the wealth of experience. (More still welcome by the way)

Whatever you decide in regards to fuel/oil brand and mix, stick with it and follow Ron's tuning guidlines at the very end of this thread. He did an excellent job on it. If it's not posted in the Tech section, it should be.

http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/seizing-430-motors.7221/