engine overhaul what about ceramic bearings ?

[R-J van Hulst]

Hi

As I am on a temporary non driving moment (4 broken ribs) it is a nice trigger moment for a engine overhaul.

of cause the WB 165 cc kit is more becoming an obligation and to sort out the carb instability is also high on my fix list.

as the botom end goes open and all bearings will be replaced i do have several options with diferent price tags.

standard local availible bearings (cheapest)

special coated steel bearings that according the sales rap are reducing friction which as result increase the out put of the engine or reduce the fuel consumption at the same power demand.

(lets say the last reason so for environmental reasons but the drive is more output)

http://www.microbluebearings.com/

still in my budget to obtain these bearings.

or ceramic bearings what is probably the best available that is still affordable (this would would drive the price to the limits of my budget)

does anyone here on the forum have experience with one of the last 2 options and what is the verdict?

anny other thoughts/tips on a complete engine overhaul is appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Robert-Jan

 

[Troy F Collins]

There is member on here that was a expert on brg's.....he could tell you for sure AKA EKIM YAK

I would hazard to guess ceramic brg's are too precise for a bottom end application

therefore I would stay OE

I dont know for sure though

 

[glangston]

That member was Mike Kay possibly as his father owns a company that produces them....ceramic ones too.

http://www.championbearings.com/

You might also contact George @ Uptite (714 540-2920) as he has made searching out quality bearings a mission, AND he knows Mike Kay and could put you in touch with the people or info you seek.

Mike Kay's original expertise is tomatoes.

 

[R-J van Hulst]

Hi glangston

Thanks for the links will check this lead out.

Robert-Jan

 

[fletchman45]

Seems to me the OEM would be great. All the Husky 125's I have had over the years the stock bearings have proven to work very well. I heard and I'm not sure if it is true, but back around 02(DO NOT QUOTE ME ON THE YEAR) I talked to a guy who had a 250, and the skirt on the piston broke off and when the cases were split he claimed the main bearings said made in china!!! At that time I thought it may be possible as Husky probably owed everyone money and hec you could hardly get a back fender! (This was kind of the last straw and we lost alot of Husky riders to ORANGE)

 

[R-J van Hulst]

just a technical note

I do see the benefits of the ceramic bearings but I am a bit in the dark about the coatings these days the question is not so be is it better than stock (it is)
the question is more is it the extra money worth spending?

In manufacturing its still a compromise on the cost and benefits

it doesn't really mean that it is the best, its good enough so there is not a disadvantage with the competition

Robert-Jan

 

[steadydirt]

"standard local availible bearings (cheapest)"sic

wouldn't dream of it myself

 

[Mike Kay]

Troy, glangston, you crack me up. Its true. Im a tomato guy. If anyone ever wants to talk Tunisian tomato paste exports to Senegal, send me a PM!

Bearings: i know a bit about them, but really im no expert. My brother truly is an expert. If any Husky guy really wants to talk ceramics and coatings, call him. Richard Kay, Jr. 949 488 0521. He owns Impact Bearings. Dad is now semi-retired.
And no, conspiracy theorists, my bro wont sell 1-2 bearings to the public. He sells thousands to guys like Boeing and NASA.

IMHO the best way to go for 99% of riders is the FAG 6206 (250's) and FAG 6306 for 450/510's. Only use c3 tolerance bearings. FAG are very well made, and dont seem to be knocked off by the Chinese, according to my bro and his fellow bearing brokers.

Call George at Uptite as suggested. He has the German sourced FAG's, with the groove.

Dont just go to your local bearing dealer, and dont skimp on your bearings, thats just nuts. The market is full of Chinese knock off bearings with "Made in Japan" or whatever stamped on them, its a big problem.

The OEM Husky bearings are not bad, but not great either. FAG is a nice upgrade. As pointed out, cost is a big issue with bike manufacturers, and thats with bearings also.

Problem with ceramics and hybrid ceramics (steel races, ceramic balls) is that there are good ones, and there are cheap chinese versions. A bad chinese ceramic is obviously not as good as a well made steel bearing, and that is the rub. Its a similar issue with coatings. There just isnt anyone in the retail market that i can recommend. Its a QC issue, and not a concept issue. The hybrid ceramic concept is the way to go, but where to get a proven high end ceramic hybrid bearing or coated bearing? Retail? Good luck. Industry can and does buy such things, its a huge market, but getting a quality product for small retail sales (2 bearings?) it just doesnt exist, IMHO.

Its worth pointing out there are lots of coatings, different shield/seal materials, cages, etc. can be used. Different types of bearings are also an option. Full compliment (ball on ball), angular contact (wear longer) and dual "thin line" bearings side by side are all options, if done right. But then its an engineering exercise. It gets complicated. Personally i think dual hybrid ceramic bearings with alternating ball sizes spinning in the opposite direction with tungston disulfide coatings, teflon cages, and a teflon shield would be the ultimate. Might cost $500 each set? It can get silly. Of course all this will change the tolerances of the bearing, not to mention all the problems of tearing them apart to coat, and then snapping them back together.

I use standard German made FAG 6306 C3 steel bearings in my baja 1000 race bike. Call/email George.

Hope this helps. If you go with ceramics or coated bearings i would be curious to hear what you do and how it works out.

cheers,
MK

 

[R-J van Hulst]

Hi Mike

Thanks for your reply and views.

Personally i am not so interested in the tomatoes but I will keep you in mind if somebody inquire

I agree with you that there is a lot of imitation in the market and especially where I live.

that's also the reason that i will source my bearings either in Europe or America.

I am well aware that you get what you pay for so if the deal is a cheap bargain the bearings probably are cheap and will turn out not to be a bargain.

I posted a link in my first post of this threat is anyone familiar with them? micro blue.

I did contact them and they replied surprisingly quick, the prices that they quoted on their website are not outrageous in my opinion but for sure not a bargain either.

again if the coating works as that it is claimed than it would be a good deal as for sure the bearings are a point of friction and thus power loss and thus more fuel consumption.

now that its for me not NR one reason that I consider to put it, its NR 3 reason to be honest.

NR one reason is to do the overhaul and be done with it for the rest of the bikes life (Les friction is also less wear so the bearings should last way longer than the conventional setups.
second and also a nice reason is that you will gain a few tens of a pony in the out put.

being a small bore bike (soon to be bigger) squeezing a bit more power out of it is only increasing the grin factor and that is a justified reason for doing it in my opinion.

Robert-Jan

 

[Mike Kay]

Hi R-J,

Ive never done business with Microblue. Cant say one way or another. I tried to find out what their coating was a few years ago. No luck. They seem to run a tight ship, but no idea if thats just marketing or if they really make a better product. There are many tricks to properly coating bearings.

If you buy from them please let us know how it all works out.

IMO the biggest advantage of coated and ceramic (smoother) bearings is the cooler running motor.

Hi Mike

Thanks for your reply and views.

Personally i am not so interested in the tomatoes but I will keep you in mind if somebody inquire

I agree with you that there is a lot of imitation in the market and especially where I live.

that's also the reason that i will source my bearings either in Europe or America.

I am well aware that you get what you pay for so if the deal is a cheap bargain the bearings probably are cheap and will turn out not to be a bargain.

I posted a link in my first post of this threat is anyone familiar with them? micro blue.

I did contact them and they replied surprisingly quick, the prices that they quoted on their website are not outrageous in my opinion but for sure not a bargain either.

again if the coating works as that it is claimed than it would be a good deal as for sure the bearings are a point of friction and thus power loss and thus more fuel consumption.

now that its for me not NR one reason that I consider to put it, its NR 3 reason to be honest.

NR one reason is to do the overhaul and be done with it for the rest of the bikes life (Les friction is also less wear so the bearings should last way longer than the conventional setups.
second and also a nice reason is that you will gain a few tens of a pony in the out put.

being a small bore bike (soon to be bigger) squeezing a bit more power out of it is only increasing the grin factor and that is a justified reason for doing it in my opinion.

Robert-Jan

 

[rancher1]

Mike, thanks for the input !