• 4 Stroke Husqvarna Motorcycles Made In Italy - About 1989 to 2014
    TE = 4st Enduro & TC = 4st Cross

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fuel not transferring between tank halves

Mel Micic

Husqvarna
B Class
Sorry if this has been asked before, I searched and didn't come across anything substantial.

Anyway, I have 2012 TE310, that seems does not transfer fuel from one side to another. I run out of fuel and when I looked inside the right side was empty and the left side was full.

This bike is new to me so it is possible that I am not doing something right. The right petcock style valve was open and the left side valve was position down (extended) toward the ground.

What is the correct setting? I can't find anything in the manual. What can go wrong and what should I be looking at/for?

Thanks.
 
While looking down into the empty side of the tank, move the petcock to a different position. If you see fuel flowing in, you have your answer. If you see fuel flowing onto the ground, you have a different answer. Make sure that the connector in the fuel cross line beneath the tank is connect fully, if not fully connected the checkvalves will prevent fuel flow. If all of the above is good, empty the tank and disconnect the left side fuel line and see if you can blow air backward through the petcock.
 
Hi Mel-

<snip> The right petcock style valve was open and the left side valve was position down (extended) toward the ground.

First of all, "right" and "left" should be as you are sitting on the bike (IOW, the bike's right & left). According to the 2012 TE 310 parts manual, the petcock on the left is what I would call a "radiator drain" style, and should be un-screwed to be open (upside down, remember: lefty-loosey). You are correct in that the petcock with the more traditional lever should have it pointed down to be open.

I keep the left petcock open, and the traditional-style petcock closed on my 2014- thinking I can use it as a minor reserve; although I am not sure how this is gonna work out IRL [actually, I was considering exchanging the two petcocks- putting the more traditional style on the left to make it easier to manipulate while riding... but on my bike it also hosts the low fuel sensor, and the angles don't work out IIRC, so I put that thought to rest).

good luck.

Scott
 
Hi Mel-



First of all, "right" and "left" should be as you are sitting on the bike (IOW, the bike's right & left). According to the 2012 TE 310 parts manual, the petcock on the left is what I would call a "radiator drain" style, and should be un-screwed to be open (upside down, remember: lefty-loosey). You are correct in that the petcock with the more traditional lever should have it pointed down to be open.

I keep the left petcock open, and the traditional-style petcock closed on my 2014- thinking I can use it as a minor reserve; although I am not sure how this is gonna work out IRL [actually, I was considering exchanging the two petcocks- putting the more traditional style on the left to make it easier to manipulate while riding... but on my bike it also hosts the low fuel sensor, and the angles don't work out IIRC, so I put that thought to rest).

good luck.

Scott
Interesting idea to use it as a reserve. Anyone do this with success?
 
I attempted the reserve method by keeping the right petcock (with handle) open. With the left (thumb screw) petcock closed.

Recently, I got the low fuel light and icon on the display. Opened the left petcock up. The light did not go off.

Ducked out to a gas station and only took 0.78 gallon of gas to fill up. So I had about 1.5 gallons in the tank when the light and icon came on.

Strange indeed.
 
Hey 2wheeler-
I attempted the reserve method by keeping the right petcock (with handle) open. With the left (thumb screw) petcock closed.

Recently, I got the low fuel light and icon on the display. Opened the left petcock up. The light did not go off.

Yeah... this technique would not affect the low fuel light performance one iota (and the sensor is on the right side, fuel pick-up on the left IIRC). I was intending to use the "reserve" when I actually sputtered to a stop- I'm hoping to flip the right petcock open and get 5 more miles, depending on splash transfer.

Like you (I'm guessing) I find the low fuel light almost worthless. It comes on way early, and spends the next half hour cycling between on & off every 5-10 minutes. Basically, half my ride is spent with it on. Hell, after I fill up the light is still on for a while- like it has a 2 minute delay built in. I find myself ignoring it, which is kinda dangerous.
 

I like that tank, Nick- it does the job of the old Enduro Jugs by Maier, which are not around anymore. I'm guessing the CARB nazi might've had a say in their demise, along with the rise of 4 strokes (and the disappearance of crossbars- which are making a big comeback, BTW. yeah!) [later: Maier claims that the rise of Camelbaks was a major factor; lotsa people were using the jugs for water, too]

But my problem is not with my bike's adequate range (>90 miles theoretically) but with the low fuel indicator being on for more than half the ride. I don't know if it's controlled by a float & switch, capacitance, or a resistor/potentiometer- but someday I gonna figure a way to make it come on only when I'm down to about a quart of gas (~10 miles... which can be stretched to 15 or even more if you try). And I might switch it with the "FI" LED to make it more eye-catching, too. If anybody has any hints for me, LMK.

To the OP- did you figure out your problem? Please let us know what it was.
 
Interesting idea to use it as a reserve. Anyone do this with success?

well, I've purposely have run it out of gas twice now... and the news is slightly disappointing. Turning both petcocks off in order to use the gas in the right hand side of the tank as a reserve nets very little extra mileage (1.6 miles, 1.9 miles :(). Also, it takes quite a bit of time for any remaining gas to transfer- grrrrrr. My "dry" gas tank then held 2.111 gallons and 2.100 gallons upon refilling, so I'm guessing the fuel volume was not calculated taking the internal pump & filters into account.

Since both petcocks are outboard, there *may* be some usable gas in the right side that you could get only by draining the right side into a container and then pouring it into the left side (310 gas caps are off-center to the left, making this easy) but I have not tired this yet.

I still run with the crossover fuel line shut off; in spite of it not giving me a huge reserve advantage. I believe that by closing both petcocks, I reduce the chance of fuel hose drama ending my ride prematurely. And, hell- splash transfer seems to get 98% of the fuel over to the fuel pump anyhow, at least on my steep 1st-2nd-3rd gear single-track rides, with lotsa falls.

btw, I'm getting 38-39mpg with this kind of riding after having ZTR re-map my ecu, and my real-life range is 78 miles- and then I'm dry. I would expect my mileage to be around 30-32mpg in a hare scrambles-type race, and my easy-road mileage to be, oh, maybe 46mpg. These last 2 figures are estimates based on past experience, and are not measured.
 
Sorry if this has been asked before, I searched and didn't come across anything substantial.

Anyway, I have 2012 TE310, that seems does not transfer fuel from one side to another. I run out of fuel and when I looked inside the right side was empty and the left side was full.

This bike is new to me so it is possible that I am not doing something right. The right petcock style valve was open and the left side valve was position down (extended) toward the ground.

What is the correct setting? I can't find anything in the manual. What can go wrong and what should I be looking at/for?

Thanks.

Mel I had on my 2011 TXC250 the fuel screen or strainer inside the fuel pump assembly plug up enough to cause it to run out of fuel at random times!? Shaking the fuel in the tank and waiting a few minutes it would fire right up and this is with a full tank of gas. The remedy was take the fuel pump out and pull the plastic housing off that surrounds the pump to get at the very fine screen it was black! This was when the bike was very new. I think the dealer put some dirty gas in when I purchased it anyway cleaned that screen up and never had a problem since!! I bet alot of fuel pumps have been replaced because owners thought they went bad..! LOL
 
well, I've purposely have run it out of gas twice now... and the news is slightly disappointing. Turning both petcocks off in order to use the gas in the right hand side of the tank as a reserve nets very little extra mileage (1.6 miles, 1.9 miles :(). Also, it takes quite a bit of time for any remaining gas to transfer- grrrrrr. My "dry" gas tank then held 2.111 gallons and 2.100 gallons upon refilling, so I'm guessing the fuel volume was not calculated taking the internal pump & filters into account.

Well, I have an update on this situation.

[but first a "re-introduction"... I AM shovelhead85, but apparently a handful of members lost control of their accounts in early October and can't (?) get them back. shit. also, I screwed up my b-day on this account, putting my kid's in 'cause I had been using his account- anyhow... I'm almost 60 now. unfortunately].

Anyways, my fuel mileage varies between 37mpg for aggressive riding and 43mpg for the easier stuff. I still ride with BOTH petcocks off and recommend you do the same. There is just no upside to riding with 'em always on. With both off I still have my "reserve" but also limit any loss of fuel caused by a damaged crossover line. My low fuel LED has been on 100% of the time for more than 6 months now. I ignore it totally; I'm guessing that the 68ohm pullup resistor wire is broken... but it's not worth fixing.

I have a couple of new data points to contribute. I was riding with a buddy south of Downieville (Burlington Ridge) and we did an 85 mile day. I ran out of gas at 81 miles; we pulled over and I turned on my petcocks and waited for 5 mins. I got an additional and unexpected 4 miles (almost enough to make it worthwhile!) of asphalt roads, but ran out again about 3 miles from his house. He shot home & got his truck and picked me up. When I refilled the tank, it took 1.94gals, which means I had another 1/10th of a gallon left (about a beer can's worth). This should've been good for another 5 miles! Very cool. So the new data shows that residual fuel on the right side of the tank depends very much on how aggressive you're riding (we had been on dirt roads/asphalt at the end of the day, all the good single track had been done). No shock there, I suppose.

So count on 1.5 miles, if you're riding difficult terrain, as a reserve. But on smooth stuff, you might be able to squeeze 8 extra miles out of things, which is almost usable (much less splash-transfer and better mileage conditions).

The other lesson learned is that you would probably have to mechanically transfer the fuel; the flow is so sl-o-o-o-o-w through the crossover line and depends very much on keeping your bike level. Using a clean beer can or baggie, while leaning the bike to the right (and the hose off of the right petcock; left petcock closed) to fill your container and empty it into the tank would be much better; this would've gotten me home. So would've laying the bike over on it's left side and picking up the wheels... which used to be SOP in this situation.

I guess I should say: YOUR MILEAGE WILL VARY. So do your own tests.

Good luck.
 
As far as the fuel sensor, replace the sensor/petcock for $45. Mine failed early on. It has continuity when the float is low on the spindle or when it has failed. Otherwise it should not have any continuity with a full tank. As far as the crossover, I figure better to leave it on and equalize levels. Otherwise I would assume with bumps and varied lean angles you may get air into the system or just starve at times till some fuel splashes over, but on a long carve to the right you may starve the system as opposed to fuel quickly leveling directly where the pickup is on the left. As far as fuel line issues, only one I can think of is the possibility of the left petcock hitting the water pump if the tank is not spaced. I get roughly 45 mpg as well and fuel light comes on about 75-80 miles with a .5 gal reserve.

Thread when I replaced my sensor...
http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/reserve-fuel-sensor.36762/#post-357981
 
Capture.JPG The way the valves work is basically to allow the flow from one tank to another. In the bottom of each half of the tank, there is a valve(petcock) the right side of the bike is the traditional petcock(with handle), which has the low fuel sensor, the left side of the bike, is basically a valve. Both are connected thru a little black hose that travels over the cylinder head. If you have your tank filled up, it will allow fuel to circulate to both sides, and keeping them at about the same level. You should have both always open for better functioning.
 
A long response to follow in the next post; best move on to another thread if you don't like dry, multi-paragraph responses. sorry.
 
As far as the fuel sensor, replace the sensor/petcock for $45...

Nope; pretty sure my sensor still works (as it was designed to, which is sucky). If I did want this poorly designed system to function better, I'd probably add a small foam float under the sensor's float (which works on a reed switch, I'd guess, not a hall-effect switch) to delay the closing of the switch to a more useable 15-20 mile reserve.

Just to be extra clear: IMNSHO, in this case, a totally functional low-fuel warning system that is working correctly, as designed, is next to worthless. Way-way-way too much fuel left in the tank.

Bone throw: I suppose, John, if I was getting 50mpg like you (I'm assuming you have the stock tank, which I measured on my '14 and it holds 2.111 gals) AND the LED did not come on until I'd gone 80 miles, the 25 mile reserve (IOW, 0.5gals) would be acceptable, maybe liveable (still a tensy high for my tastes). But my experience, and measurements, have been much different.

I think our 310's are pretty close too (same mods, including ZTR ECU work... 'cept I have a TI Leo Vince pipe) Note: I run 12z-51z sprockets, using a GT fatty on the front & a Mountain Hybrid on the rear... both of these tires are pretty much the heaviest in their classes (and frikken fantastic, 'specially that fatty)

...As far as the crossover, I figure better to leave it on and equalize levels. Otherwise I would assume with bumps and varied lean angles you may get air into the system or just starve at times till some fuel splashes over, but on a long carve to the right you may starve the system as opposed to fuel quickly leveling directly where the pickup is on the left. As far as fuel line issues, only one I can think of is the possibility of the left petcock hitting the water pump if the tank is not spaced. I get roughly 45 mpg as well and fuel light comes on about 75-80 miles with a .5 gal reserve.

[the following reads a bit harsher than I intend:] well, you figure wrong; and your assumptions are wrong. I suppose if you raced the british short track circuit (not a real thing, AFAIK), that long-right-turn might affect you. maybe. (OTOH, if you think it through, the same situation with the petcocks ON might cause starvation too; fuel goes all to the right side).

But my experience shows me the difference is barely measurable: call it 1.6 miles of travel (after which, I get to go a bit farther- minor win) and no negative effects. With your style of riding, that might be as high as 10-12 miles (major win).

John (and Alberto?)- don't assume, do the experiment and make the measurements- you're gonna be surprised, I bet.

[Johnrg- I just thought of something: if you haven't measured how much fuel is left (your .5 gal statement) when the light comes on, as opposed to calculating it based on a possible erroneous 2.25gal tank specification- you might wanna do it, just so you know what you're dealing with. It does jive with the tech spec that say reserve is 2.43qts. I'd like to know the volume of other 310r tanks, too. OTOH, if you do know this... good. I don't wanna be snarky]

BTW, when these bikes run out of fuel, there is very little stumbling... they just die. I've done it on purpose a handful of times. And I think fuel injection pump systems habitually take in air; which is why most have the recirculation design- constant air-free fuel pressure. Do our bikes recirculate at the fuel regulator? -because I dunno. But don't worry about getting air into the system... either it isn't a big effect or it ain't happening.

And as far as a crossover line failing, I will admit that it is not a frequent occurrence. It has happened to me- but on my harley (my "shovelhead"). However, it does not take much imagination to figure a scenario where a branch rips it off, or tangling with another bike in a fall which can pull it off. So another win, albeit minor.

To recap: with the petcocks closed, you get a minor or moderate reserve (depending) and insurance against a crossover fuel line failure. And your low-fuel LED still works and functions the same. But with the petcocks open, and your fuel level is "equalized", does that mean you can't suck in air? No, not all- but it does mean when you're out of gas- you are OUT.

BTW, I don't know of too many dirt bikes with crossover lines on their stock tanks. This tank is not that deep or asymmetrical- so I'm fairly convinced they don't need it.

And it use to be standard practice to lay an "empty" bike down on it's left side to get that last 7 ounces of fuel over to the other side, 'specially on MX'ers with no reserve on the tap. No more? sheesh, I really am getting old. It used to be 2nd nature to reach down and turn the petcock to "on" during the first 50 feet after taking off (this to insure you're not on "reserve" or "off") but no more, I guess. Actually, (kinda funny) Chad Reed's mechanic got so frustrated with Chad habitually doing this (and accidentally turning it off- race bikes can have weird petcocks and just about never have a reserve) so he broke the lever off. Can't turn it without a pair of pliers now. Hah- I have the same disease... since 1968; so there's no cure I guess.

Also, I did read your thread when you wrote it, again when I got my 310r last year, and just now. Good info- thanx.

The way the valves work is basically to allow the flow from one tank to another. In the bottom of each half of the tank, there is a valve(petcock) the right side of the bike is the traditional petcock(with handle), which has the low fuel sensor, the left side of the bike, is basically a valve. Both are connected thru a little black hose that travels over the cylinder head. If you have your tank filled up, it will allow fuel to circulate to both sides, and keeping them at about the same level. You should have both always open for better functioning.

uh, yeah Alberto- I am pretty sure everybody understands what this simple system is doing. It turns out, in real life, the crossover system is unneeded. And it does absolutely nothing for a full tank- only when the fuel level is lower than the frame. Also, you guys did read the part where I said this was a new account for a 5 year member; and that I am "shovelhead85", who posted a year ago on this thread, right?

one mo': when you do run out of fuel, using either system of closed or open petcocks, close at least ONE of 'em if you are transferring small amounts of gas (like, say, from another bike) to make sure it all stays on the left side- to get maximum range. Hell, drain the crossover hose into the tank to get an extra 200 yards.

Hope I didn't ruffle any feathers... but measure your performance & capacities; you might find it's best to keep those petcocks closed. I'll try to keep an open mind if someone comes up with a good reason to ride with 'em any other way.
 
I have not done any thorough testing as you have. When my reserve light lights, I fill up with 1.6-1.7+ gals. I assume a half gallon in reserve but I have never run dry so no knowledge on what is exactly right. The crossover is your call. I had a crossover on an old Honda 350 twin as it's tank saddled the top tube. I assumed the tank interior may block flow so the crossover so never thought more about it. I run a PCV and leaned out Map 3 in places. I run the stock pipe and gearing 13/50.

Found a photo of the a 350 tank...

36157d1397581328-cb350-fuel-tank-what-these-leaking-prongs-20140415_114349.jpg

http://www.hondatwins.net/forums/49...b350-fuel-tank-what-these-leaking-prongs.html
 
My 2 cents. I found out the hard way I get an 80-85 mile range if hitting the throttle hard (2013 TE310R, 12/50). The light came on and I got another approximately 15 easy miles with the valves open. Then it ran out. I called my wife to fill and bring the gas can and she said I was an idiot and to call a tow truck. Now the weird part. I don't remember the exact sequence but between opening and closing the valves, taking the gas cap off and leaning the bike, after about 10 minutes, it restarted and I got another 3 miles or so. I coasted into a biker bar where I drank beer and listened to 70s rock until AAA showed up with gas.:cheers:
 
My 2 cents. I found out the hard way I get an 80-85 mile range if hitting the throttle hard (2013 TE310R, 12/50). The light came on and I got another approximately 15 easy miles with the valves open. Then it ran out. I called my wife to fill and bring the gas can and she said I was an idiot and to call a tow truck. Now the weird part. I don't remember the exact sequence but between opening and closing the valves, taking the gas cap off and leaning the bike, after about 10 minutes, it restarted and I got another 3 miles or so. I coasted into a biker bar where I drank beer and listened to 70s rock until AAA showed up with gas.:cheers:

That's pretty good mileage Jim. What happened in that 10 mins is that the slow-flowing crossover (it just drizzles really) transferred some fuel over to the left side. (and wait... you couldn't find a gas station within 15 miles in SoCal; but you COULD find a bar?? hmmmmm.)

Anyhooo, your situation is EXACTLY what I'm advocating ('cept the pissed-off wife, of course). My hard-riding range is 74-78miles 'til my tank is bone-dry. If I could get a consistent 15 miles extra I would be very happy- hell an extra 10 would do it; right now I get 1.5-4.0 miles.

John- I completely forgot about your Power Commander work- that's gonna make a big difference in mileage. And weirdly, I calculated your mileage at 45-50mpg using my 1.6 gallon figure so that jived pretty squarely... your reserve could very well be 0.5 gallons because that would make your total 2.1 gallons- which is my measurement. My fuel LED would come on intermittently starting about 25 miles and be on solidly at 30-35 miles, telling me I only had 40 to 50 miles left (IOW, when it was working- it still was worthless)
 
So, trenchcoat85, in few words, having both valves open as I always have used them, means if I run out of gas, Im out. But having them closed, what is the pros?
When I did it once by "mistake" my fuel light came on with my tank almost full..
 
So, trenchcoat85, in few words, having both valves open as I always have used them, means if I run out of gas, Im out. But having them closed, what is the pros?
When I did it once by "mistake" my fuel light came on with my tank almost full..

(Alberto- this shovelhead85... I helped you with your brake bleed question & later, your clutch bleed question IIRC. And I can't remember if you're in Costa Rica, Puerto Rico, or The Canary Islands- so the distance quotes will be in kilometers)

the answer to your question appeared earlier in the thread:
To recap: with the petcocks closed, you get a minor or moderate reserve (depending) and insurance against a crossover fuel line failure. And your low-fuel LED still works and functions the same. But with the petcocks open, and your fuel level is "equalized", does that mean you can't suck in air? No, not all- but it does mean when you're out of gas- you are OUT.

With the kind of riding (it looks like) you do, you might get an extra 4Km after you run out- not much but it could be handy. I typically get as little as 3km. Once, on a long ride of mixed trails, then roads- I got 7Km extra after I ran out and might even had some more left (possibly another 6-8Km).

This technique should not affect the low fuel LED behavior- with a very, very minor exception: on an insanely easy ride (for example: 150Km, no turns, bumps, hills or stops), you might run out with with as much as a liter or more still on the right side. Your LED would've still come on, but you might run out soon after it did. Of course, when you turn on the petcocks, you will have another- umm, say, 20-30Km range left.

One last: doing this (the petcock thing) would delay your LED if anything, not make it prematurely early.

definitely do the experiment for yourself so you get your own numbers; and don't count on anything.

good luck.
 
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