Help required from the UK.

[Andy Simpson]

I have just (3 days ago) bought a 2011 TE449 with 2k miles. On the first 2 rides I have had the same problem which is that the bike seems fine for the first 20 or so miles and then starts surging. The surging increases and then the bike starts cutting out until finally under load it stops. It will fire back up on the button but will not pull under load. On both occasions I have had to walk it in 1st gear. If I leave the bike for a while it will then start and run for a while, but the problem will not clear.

The bike has the Akrapovic exhaust, Map 2 with the lamba sensor removed.

It feels like the engine is not getting enough fuel. I can see that with the 'extra's' that came with the bike there is a complete fuel pump assembly (out of the clear tank) which suggests that this is not a new problem.

I've seen some thread here which suggest that it's a fuel issue and some that suggest it's electrical.

I like the bike, and hope that there is a (easy) fix.

PLEASE HELP.

 

[teuchter]

I have a honda road bike that had EXACTLY these symptoms. It ran great when cold but after heating up, it surged then cut out but would crawl in 1st gear after restart running real rough. After letting it cool down, it would run great again. I too assumed it was a fuel issue and rebuilt the carbs - twice.

It turned out to be electrical - the pulse generator in the ignition system was defective (it was cracked - discovered by visual inspection after removing the engine side case).

I'd start by making sure your fuel tank breather vent isn't obstructed, and that your intermediate fuelcock isn't closed/blocked. The middle fuelcock needs to be permanently open.

Then i'd start checking the electrical system.

There are examples on these forums of failures of alternators on these bikes.

 

[teuchter]

PS, I'd start with the lower cost electrical stuff progressing towards the spendy stuff;

1) Ignition ground on LHS of cylinder head - relocate to frame and make sure the wire isn't broken inside the insulation - known failure on these bikes
2) Spark plug - replace anyway - invisible cracks in ceramic can cause problems
3) Spark plug coil - The plastic plug thing that goes over the spark plug
4) Temperature sensor in radiator
5) Then start checking generator phases

 

[Huskynoobee]

You might need a new Temp sensor, also seems to be fairly common. Also check the intake boot and screws to make sure it's properly sealed.

 

[GFJ]

Could try giving Stuart from ss racing a ring. Based near Shrewsbury. Used to maintain the UK press fleet.
A knowledgeable guy.

 

[Dangermouse449]

PS, I'd start with the lower cost electrical stuff progressing towards the spendy stuff;

1) Ignition ground on LHS of cylinder head - relocate to frame and make sure the wire isn't broken inside the insulation - known failure on these bikes
2) Spark plug - replace anyway - invisible cracks in ceramic can cause problems
3) Spark plug coil - The plastic plug thing that goes over the spark plug
4) Temperature sensor in radiator
5) Then start checking generator phases

Looks like a good place to start to me.

The centre fuel tap/hose is a good idea to check as stated as well.
Any large debis that got into the mian tank could potentially block the fuel outlet to the small pump tank.
It may be open enough to fill the pump tank when stationary but not flow enough to run the engine under load. (Does the pump tank remain full when it stops??)

If it isn't a fuel delivery fault I'd say electrical, plug/coil/ignition pick-up breaking down when hot.....

 

[Tinken]

More than likely it is either your temp sensor or ignition ground attached to the side of your head.

 

[Andy Simpson]

Stripped bike down and it turns out that problem was just the left hand breather tube from main tank was routed down and under engine facing forward. The last 6 inch's or so and was clogged with crap from 3 years of riding. This was creating a vacuum in the tank and starving bike of fuel. This would explain bike running very hot (lean) just before stalling.

I cut breather pipe at block and re-routed it down past swing arm linkage and facing backwards.

All sorted now and bike ran perfectly.

Thanks for all of you that replied with suggestions. Happy trailing.


Andy

 

[Dangermouse449]

Stripped bike down and it turns out that problem was just the left hand breather tube from main tank was routed down and under engine facing forward. The last 6 inch's or so and was clogged with crap from 3 years of riding. This was creating a vacuum in the tank and starving bike of fuel. This would explain bike running very hot (lean) just before stalling.

I cut breather pipe at block and re-routed it down past swing arm linkage and facing backwards.

All sorted now and bike ran perfectly.

Thanks for all of you that replied with suggestions. Happy trailing.


Andy

Great to hear mate. A nice easy/cheap fix!

 

[Tinken]

Instead of running that out to the ground, run it to the back side of your air filter. We plugged this line a few times when racing this model. After that we run to the air box and no more issues.

 

[teuchter]

yessssssss

I feel a career change coming on ha ha.

 

[Andy Simpson]

Turns out breather pipe was not the problem. Don't know what it is though. Still scratching head....

 

[djdougiedoug]

You must be running very lean/hot with only map 2 and an Akra can, I would strongly recommend going to map 3/full race exhaust.
I've the same spec and it wouldn't run properly on map 2.
Even now mine surges at bit when I get into traffic whe it gets hot, might be worth wrapping fuel lines/part of the tank with some Pitking cool tape.
Only £9.00 on fleabay UK.
Probably wont fully solve but would help

 

[Andy Simpson]

Forgive ignorance, but how do I load a different map (dealer only ?)

 

[teuchter]

Yes, Dealer or ZipTy only.

I don't think surging to the extent the bike stops is a map issue. I'd start working my way through the electrical troubleshooting list above.

I'm with Tinken now, my guess is temperature sensor (lower right radiator). Does the issue still only exist when the bike is hot?

 

[teuchter]

PS, a known fault on this model is the wire on the left side cylinder earth connection breaks down covertly inside the insulation with heat. The wire may look like it's connected OK when in fact there's a break in the circuit. You may need to run a new piece of wire for that earth. Re-run it to an earth connection on the frame so you don't get recurrence of the issue.

 

[Tinken]

More than likely it is either your temp sensor or ignition ground attached to the side of your head.

I would check those two items. It could be a fuel pump issue, but seems unlikely. I would clean all your connectors and add silicon electrical grease.

 

[teuchter]

Instead of running that out to the ground, run it to the back side of your air filter. We plugged this line a few times when racing this model. After that we run to the air box and no more issues.

Connecting the fuel tank to the air inlet seems like it would be ok 99% of the time but a bad deal when the bike is tipped over or the engine backfires. Doesn't this create ignition/exposion potential around the airbox?

 

[Tinken]

Not if your one way valve is working. I would rather have a small dribble in the air box than where it could reach the header and cause a fire.

 

[teuchter]

Never met a bike or car that came from the factory with the tank vent routed to the airbox. Still seems bad to me.