LED Turn Signal Bulbs - What works

[Matt Crawley]

I'm looking to replace all the turn signals on my Terra with LEDs. I contemplated getting all new signals but I sort of like the stock ones so I figured I would try bulbs first.

Lots of conflicting info about CanBus, etc. Seems like there are a few options. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Weiser Ultrabrights
Replaces the bulb with a flat circuit board with 10 LEDs mounted on it.
Fitment is for 2013 BMW G650GS
Price: $130/4
http://www.advdesigns.com/weulbrledbli2.html




BMW Bulbs
Works in all BMW Canbus equipped bikes. Also fits many other European and domestic bikes using the 5009 bulb base, however those may require the LED flasher relay.
Price: $80/4
https://www.cyclopsadventuresports.com/BMW-Canbus-LED-Blinker-Bulb-4-Pack_p_149.html

If the BMW bulbs work I think I might go with those. Cyclops told me that they don't fit everything though and the BMW 1200 was the only one they were sure on. At $130 the Weisers inspire me to get new signals.
Matt

 

[WayneC]

The dash provides the flasher circuitry and CANBUS is not relevant to the indicators or the stop/tail lamps on the Terra/Strada

 

[268fords]

I've had great results with bulbs from superbrightleds.com. Good quality and have yet to have one fail. My taillight bulbs in my truck are 6-7 years old now. I had there bulbs in my husky's stock lights until I switched over to flush mount signals from sicass racing bulbs.

 

[Matt Crawley]

The dash provides the flasher circuitry and CANBUS is not relevant to the indicators or the stop/tail lamps on the Terra/Strada

No CANBUS? Thank you very much for this info Wayne.

That's good in that "any" LED bulb of the right size should work. Bad in that there will need to be some sort of controller/resistor added to keep the factory flasher happy.



Matt

 

[Matt Crawley]

So I'm digging a little further and came up with the following.

Stock bulb is listed by Husky as an "RY10W" - This brings up various results in google with very few matching exactly. Seems like this bulb has 150 degree prongs VS 180 on more common versions. I think I need to pull out a stock bulb and inspect. Another common name seems to be "7507".

Here is a pic of a "Real" Phillips RY10W. $25.99/pair on Amazon.




Even though we don't "need" CANBUS bulbs there may be a benefit to running them. Complying with CANBUS circuitry may eliminate the need for additional resistors. That seems to be the case with the "Inertia LED" bulbs. $50/pair @ Inertia.



Expensive / Super Cool option X-ARC Signals @ $99/pair.



Lots of other options I'm sure. Any more experiences out there?

I wasn't planning on going flush mount because I thought they were less visible but if I'm considering the teeny, tiny X-Arcs then maybe flush mount is fine.



Matt

 

[Matt Crawley]

Found a review of the Inertia bulbs at http://www.webbikeworld.com/lights/inertia-led-can-bus-led-lights/

They confirm that "You also do not need a diode in the turn signal electrics, which is required on some non-CAN bus motorcycles to solve the "fast blinking" problem that can happen when LED replacements are installed." and
"The lights put out a claimed 700 Lumens, which is a lot of light. They do get warm so are currently rated only for turn signals and not for continuous use."


Matt

 

[WayneC]

Even though we don't "need" CANBUS bulbs there may be a benefit to running them. Complying with CANBUS circuitry may eliminate the need for additional resistors. That seems to be the case with the "Inertia LED" bulbs. $50/pair @ Inertia.

Complying with CAN BUS has nothing to do with whether a resistor is required, the mis information out there even with Retailers and Journalists is staggering, the resistor is to increase current to ensure old flasher relays operate at the correct flash rate and where that is the case the relay should be replaced. With the Terra LED flashers will flash at the correct rate. With some OEM flasher systems the flasher circuitry monitors the current through the flashers to be able to generate fault codes if the current is either too high or too low and where it is too low some may flash at a higher rate to give the rider a visual indication of the problem. That high flash rate was written into flasher regulations in some countries

The "diode fix" referred to by some is only applicable where the dash lamp is wired across the L & R indicators rather than from power to earth, as is the case with the 650GS BM's and requires rewiring the dash lamp. That is not the case with the Terra/Strada

The problem with the globes used on the Terra/Strada is that it is possible to short out the contacts where a globe is not properly fitted so the globe approach is not the optimum way to go about the move to LED flashers

To understand BUS systems better, CAN BUS is used for communications between ECU's (eg ABS, Dash, BMS). Where an ECU then has multiple devices connected to it such as sensors or in this case indicators, the sub network is called LIN BUS. Most LIN BUS components are dumb but some more modern components are now including diagnostic information back to the ECU.

 

[Chuffa]

Don't worry about the RY10w 150degree prongs. I just get standard globes & file down one of the prongs. No problem & they don't rattle out.

 

[Matt Crawley]

Complying with CAN BUS has nothing to do with whether a resistor is required,

Sorry for not expanding on my thoughts and relying on the quoted text of the reviewer. My thoughts are this - When manufacturers are aiming for CANBUS Compliance this drives the price of the bulbs up. This then motivates the manufacturer to add EXTRA features (not related to CANBUS) to attract other customers. Some (but not all) CANBUS bulbs have a built in controller that handles a variety of flashing, voltage and heat management needs. BOTH the Inertia LED bulbs and the X-arc signals claim to have this built in controller.

Summary - The bulbs and signals I linked to claim to have the required internal controller to work with the TR650. I expect that they are plug and play with no additional wiring or controllers.

With the Terra LED flashers will flash at the correct rate. With some OEM flasher systems the flasher circuitry monitors the current through the flashers to be able to generate fault codes if the current is either too high or too low and where it is too low some may flash at a higher rate to give the rider a visual indication of the problem. That high flash rate was written into flasher regulations in some countries

Are you saying that the TR650 can run 4 x LED signal bulbs without mimicking the stock voltage draw? 4 x cheap LEDs connected to the stock wiring and nothing else? No quick flash when a stock bulb burns out?




Best regards,
Matt

 

[duibhceK]

For these bulbs it doesn't matter whether the bike uses canbus or not or which flasher relay is used. They do not require correction for their flashing rate because they draw the same current (and have the same resistance) as the bulbs they replace. Because they are LEDs they'll be (a lot) brighter than their incandescent counterparts though, which in this case is marketed as a feature.
So you won't save on the current they draw, but you'll get more light and possibly better longevity.

 

[WayneC]

For these bulbs it doesn't matter whether the bike uses canbus or not or which flasher relay is used. They do not require correction for their flashing rate because they draw the same current (and have the same resistance) as the bulbs they replace. Because they are LEDs they'll be (a lot) brighter than their incandescent counterparts though, which in this case is marketed as a feature.
So you won't save on the current they draw, but you'll get more light and possibly better longevity.

The stock incandescent globes are around 10 watts and any LED globe would be around 1 watt so the current draw for the LED globes is around 1/10th

Re the increased flash rate when a globe fails, the flasher is done in firmware in the dash so there can be a difference between markets US-EU whether the increase in flash rate is in the firmware, Sussurf and I were looking at it with his replacement LED indicators a month or so back and as he commented in another thread here neither of us could remember whether there was an increased flash rate when only 1 indicator was connected. We were more concerned as to whether the lower current of the LED indicators was going to generate fault codes in the dash assembly which it does not when F & R indicators are connected

 

[WayneC]

Summary - The bulbs and signals I linked to claim to have the required internal controller to work with the TR650. I expect that they are plug and play with no additional wiring or controllers.

It is hilarious that the manufacturers state a globe is CAN BUS compliant, the globes are not normally connected direct to the CAN BUS. What they are referring to is whether the ECU the globes are connected to will generate fault codes due to the lower current through the LED globes

The other reason Mfr's can refer to having an LED controller in the globe is that the really cheap LED globes use a series resistor to limit current through the globe rather than a proper LED controller. The el cheapo globes quite often under spec the power rating of the series resistor and it over heats and fails. I have seen and dismantled a number of the el cheapo globes to determine the failure cause and it has been the same every time, under rated series resistor. Where the series resistor is properly specified on the power rating, as per LED indicators I have had on one of my own machines since 2006 ish they will last a long time

On the Terra/Strada CAN BUS is only used for high speed communication between the ECU's (Dash, BMS-E, Alarm, ABS). There is no communication path to the globes other than applying 12v to turn the globe on hence there is no requirement for any internal controller in the globes to be compatible with the Terra/Strada

Are you saying that the TR650 can run 4 x LED signal bulbs without mimicking the stock voltage draw? 4 x cheap LEDs connected to the stock wiring and nothing else? No quick flash when a stock bulb burns out?

Yes the TR650 can run 4 x LED indicators without having to use load resistors to increase current as per older models with electro mechanical flasher relays

 

[duibhceK]

The stock incandescent globes are around 10 watts and any LED globe would be around 1 watt so the current draw for the LED globes is around 1/10th

That is usually the case indeed. But the link above states the inertialeds are 10W, are brighter than the incandescents they are to replace and don't need replacement flasher relays or other modifications to the flasher circuit. That would be as expected from 10W LEDs.

 

[WayneC]

That is usually the case indeed. But the link above states the inertialeds are 10W, are brighter than the incandescents they are to replace and don't need replacement flasher relays or other modifications to the flasher circuit. That would be as expected from 10W LEDs.

I would not believe a word of what Inertia say, if the LED globes are 10w then they are either very inefficient or they are consuming most of that power through a load resistor. It is more likely they are simply indicating the globe is an equivalent for a 10w incandescent globe

The construction of their globes look very much like low cost chinese pcb's despite all their fine words, they seem to ship a 12v 50 watt load resistor with both the 10w and the 21w globes, all up I would rate them as a supplier to be avoided to be polite about it

The odd part with their web site is in the Motorcycle and Automotive Fitment Guide menu items both link to Philips Automotive Lighting

 

[dmw_az]

You might want to wait and see what results this guy gets on advvrider...

http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/the-great-turn-signal-shootout.1234983/