Twin Leading Shoe Query

[SA63]

I want to put this out there as Im not happy with these on my 510..
I have:
Used a soft compound shoe
arced them in
carefully adjusted the cams , used them for going on 2 years

At first they were good (not yamaha TLS good but good enough), but they continually go off.ie a hard days racing(especiallly dirt track) and they are glazed and dead.
Removing the wheel and deglazing the shoe and steel liner seems to bring them back.

I Alway tighten them up with the brake on etc.for alignment.

I would have thought they would improve with use but they seem to go the other way.

There is some wear in the pivots but not enough to make consider rebushing the backing plate, but would be prepared to it if its the answer.

I am considering drilling and tapping 2 holes in the backing plate so the cams/ shoes can be set visually.
I am also considering a yamaha front TLS brake and forks!

So would love to know the hot set upp on these, any advice welcomed before I go down the yamaha route!

 

[firecrackerkid]

Not helpful I know but at 11:30 it's the best I have. The first time my buddy rode my yz465 he went ass over teakettle using 4 fingers on the brake lever, his personal bike? a 77 wr360.
Seriously good luck, be interesting to see where you go with this idea.

 

[ruwfo]

SA63,
Are the shoes the grooved type ? EBC or SBS , i believe , that should help the glazing problems.
Husky John

 

[SA63]

The shoes were done at a brake specialist , reshoed and matched to the drum.I like doing it this way as the off the shelf shoes ebc etc take a long time to bed in.
I am willing to accept the material could be at fault though.
When the shoes are good (deglazed) the front brake will lock up up at low speed on gravel if pulled hard..

I also have woven linings on a maico which are very good. the above arent woven though.

Was the husky TLS shoe regarded as good , average or bad back in the day?

My mates 510 has similar issues using EBC pads.

He also has a 500ae brakes are very good on that, but it doesnt get used as much a the 510.

 

[SA63]

those hand exercisors make my tennis elbow twitch!!!

 

[pcnsd]

I have the Husky twin leading shoe brake set up on my 81-430, it uses the grooved EBC shoes with nothing special added. It is superior in every-way to what it replaced, but it is not a disc brake. Are you certain that the adjustment is correct? If I remember correctly the proper adjustment is made while the cable is off and the shoes are at full rest on the cams. Adjusted so the shoes rest perfectly flat on the cams at rest.
I did need to have my cable modified by Terry cable so the cable vs sheath lengths worked out right for me and I am in the middle of the adjuster. I have also noticed that I need to ride the bike in the pits before a race with the brake pulled on to clean the rust off the drum that develops from washing the bike between uses. Once cleaned up this way the drum is ready to go and the brakes work very well and there is a real difference in felt stopping power when doing the pre-ride drum prep.

Hope this helps.
Regards,
Paul

 

[SA63]

thanks for the reply.
I am using a venhill cable, adjuster more towards the end of travel.
My brake definately " warms up", ie the lever pulls in more when cold than after doing a few laps (less available on the lever)

Guess ill adjust all again, and it would be worth trying a different set of shoes..

Its the inconsistency that i cant work out.

I have been offeerd a pair of 42mm maico forks set up with a yam tls brake though which will be hard to resist...

BTW pcnsd your tips on revalving the ITCs much appreciated(from a while back) after 4 tries , pretty happy - went too far on try 3 with rebound..I also built another set just for dirt track shortened and damped very stiff ..they work very nicely too.

 

[suprize]

i rode a mates new 510 in 84 and the front brake was crappo, seriously bad. we tried a lot of stuff but they just had no power. My 240 was close to a 2 fingers but i had grooved the shoes and sanded carefully to get the shoe drum profile good. lots of removing and refitting the wheel. Once done they were good until i needed new shoes. i saw a post somewhere ( Husky.com??)where a dude double side taped some emery onto his drum lining then worked the backing plate around and a round to get a perfect shoe profile. looked like a simple and effective way to get that right.

Your glazed shoes sounds like crap brake material. if a brake place is bonding your shoes, they might not have the best material. try the sbs grooved shoes, i remember having success with them as well.

 

[ruwfo]

This may help your braking problem slightly, it couldn't hurt. I have a old 80's MX action magazine & they said the works guys had problems with
the front brake cable pulling out, so safety wire the cable as shown & cable tie it to the forks leg. Here's a picture of it done on my 80 390CR.

Husky John

 

[SA63]

ok cant hurt as you say. ill check for flex there. I have noted my arm on the backing plate has been extended in the past, which should help..

I have ordered some ebc shoes to try as well. Ill skim them in the lathe before mounting to accelerate the bedding in process.

 

[halffast]

I'm having similar issues on my 84 CR500 . I've adjusted the levers and arced in the ebc shoes . Still get the glazing and a lack of braking " power " . I'm thinking my hub is worn as it seems to take most of the cable adjustment just to get contact even with new shoes . The hub is wear grooved quite a bit and it is difficult to even get a good measurement . I wonder with the hub worn , the actuating arm being pulled pretty far to even make shoe contact , and the cams rotating a lot , could leverage be lost due to these factors, resulting in the wimpy braking ? Does anyone have a set of worn out shoes ( the material not the pivot holes ) that they would sell to me ? I have also found a brake/clutch relining shop that will do motorcyle brake shoes and I would like to experiment with some different lining thicknesses and materials . Would use my shoes but want to keep them and what little stopping they provide while playing around with other shoe combinations .

 

[Parh 474]

If the braking material is thin, either from wear or from being rebuilt with thinner stuff, could the brake arm be pulling over center and losing leverage?

 

[dukkman]

Extend the top arm about 20/25mm.

 

[Ron]

Extend the top arm about 20/25mm.

How much difference in stopping power?
Ron

 

[dukkman]

Hi Ron
Almost as good as a twin spot disc setup , lot better than a single spot disc.
A lot better than the original.
Nice feel too.
This was a mod used in the early 80's , here in Aus , by the fast guys.

 

[Ron]

Thanks for the follow up, I'll give it try on mine.

 

[sacberg]

I recently had a local brake shop redo my almost new EBC grooved shoes with a mesh compound they use for vintage car restorations. They confirmed what I suspected from the glazing: the EBC compound is just not right for mechanical brakes. What a difference! I can do steep long downhills hills effortlessly with two fingers on the front brake only. They also hold great in reverse i.e unloading from the truck down the ramp.