2016 Betas get electronic oil injection.

Discussion in 'Non-Husqvarna Motorcycles' started by Motosportz, Jul 1, 2015.

  1. Huskynoobee CH Sponsor ZipTy Racing

    Location:
    Castaic, CA
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    2011 TE449 2006 WR250
    Other Motorcycles:
    HDUltra Classic IT200 YZ250 SV650s
    So, just curious. How do you dial jetting and keep the oil% correct with this type of system? I realize that most people are actually pretty happy with the settings as delivered, but wondering if there is some type of interface that allows the user to let the system know something has changed.

    Or does it just sample the exhaust like an O2 sensor and adjust on the fly?
  2. Motosportz CH Sponsor

    Location:
    Vancouver WA
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    2021 TE250i, 570 Berg, 500 KTM, 790R
    Other Motorcycles:
    many

    I dont think it is anywhere near that complicated. You can still change your jetting as desired and it just adds some oil to the critical parts.

    - I had no idea this post would be so polarizing. I just thought it was a cool convenience.
  3. Huskynoobee CH Sponsor ZipTy Racing

    Location:
    Castaic, CA
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    2011 TE449 2006 WR250
    Other Motorcycles:
    HDUltra Classic IT200 YZ250 SV650s
    You should read the thread on the Beta Forum...
  4. Huskynoobee CH Sponsor ZipTy Racing

    Location:
    Castaic, CA
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    2011 TE449 2006 WR250
    Other Motorcycles:
    HDUltra Classic IT200 YZ250 SV650s
  5. Zomby woof Husqvarna
    Pro Class

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    2011 CR 150
    One should have nothing to do with the other.
  6. GMP Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    NJ
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    none
    Other Motorcycles:
    '13 Beta 300RR Racing
    The Enduro21 artical stated a maximum oil mix of 1.2%. 1.2% = 83.3:1
  7. Rob578 Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    Atlanta GA was CA
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    Beta 300RR Beta 500RS TE 630
    Other Motorcycles:
    Honda 919 sold FJR1300 sold
    Nothing but a troublemaker
    454x likes this.
  8. Huskynoobee CH Sponsor ZipTy Racing

    Location:
    Castaic, CA
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    2011 TE449 2006 WR250
    Other Motorcycles:
    HDUltra Classic IT200 YZ250 SV650s
    I would hope not, but like I said earlier my 2 smoke experience is from the days of carrying a nice padded box full of jets and experimenting with finding the right gas/oil mixture for the bike and type of riding you do. That was before I found the Beta info on their site though. It uses a TPS and engine speed sensor system to vary the oil injection. I totally get that part, but not sure how it compensates for altitude if it can't control the fuel/air mixture too. Do they jet it for a happy medium where the performance is somewhat limited?:excuseme:

    I'm not knocking it at all. I just would need to know if would perform like an RR should, or if it is more like an X trainer? I still want to see the day where I can buy a street legal 2 stroke DS even in Commifornia and I'm sure this is step in that direction.
  9. racemx904 Husqvarna
    Pro Class

    Location:
    owenton, ky
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    2014 Beta 350RR & 1986 430XC
    Other Motorcycles:
    1975 Rokon and 2004 Kawasaki KX65
    I think your overthinking what the oil injector system is doing....

    It is NOT jetting your bike or compensting for altitude it is injecting the proper amount of premix into the engine for lubrication.

    You will still have to jet it like you would a normal 2 stroke....

    Again it is a oil injection system (replacing premixing your oil) not an EFI system
  10. TROFFER88 Husqvarna
    Pro Class

    Location:
    Camas Wa
    I have 200 miles on mine haven't even added oil , thing is barely down the neck
    john01 likes this.
  11. Huskynoobee CH Sponsor ZipTy Racing

    Location:
    Castaic, CA
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    2011 TE449 2006 WR250
    Other Motorcycles:
    HDUltra Classic IT200 YZ250 SV650s
    Yeah, I'm not retarded on that 904. But it does have an ECU and uses the TPS and speed sensor to inject said oil instead of using premix. I also get that it has a carb.

    What I'm wondering about is if the owner elects to make a jetting change, there isn't a way to vary the mixture. As I'm sure you know, some people like to experiment with oil mixture in conjunction with jetting changes to achieve their personal preference.

    I also get before you say it that if you want to mess around that much you should get the race edition and not worry about the OI.

    My curiosity was focused on the performance out of the box with stock jetting that works best with the injection rates loaded into the ECU.

    Never mind I ain't gonna buy one anyway as I'm just PWT...GEEZZZZ
  12. ohmygewd Husqvarna
    Pro Class

    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    13'Berg FE350, 96'WR360, 01 WR250
    Other Motorcycles:
    Aprilia RSV1000
    I get what you are saying, how will this system understand or adapt that l want to run 32:1 for desert/open trail riding vs 50:1 for low speed/technical riding....what is this perfect mix that the Beta flyer is saying?!?
    Dunno, l guess you'll have to borrow a 300 Xtrainer, jet it up for high speed riding (@32:1) and be on the stops for 1-2kms and inspect the plug, then with the same jetting (for 32:1) ride in low speed stuff...you would think that 32:1 jetted for high speed the plug would come out that light tan colour and in low speed the bike will splutter, spooge and possibly foul the plug.
  13. shawbagga Husqvarna
    Pro Class

    Location:
    Eaton, Western Australia
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    None
    Other Motorcycles:
    2018 Gasgas XC250
    yuck.
  14. shawbagga Husqvarna
    Pro Class

    Location:
    Eaton, Western Australia
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    None
    Other Motorcycles:
    2018 Gasgas XC250
    didnt even know theyd landed there yet troffer. youre unreal!:thumbsup:
  15. Zomby woof Husqvarna
    Pro Class

    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    2011 CR 150
    That's the benefit of the system. There is NO mixture, you don't change the amount of oil. It's always correct.

    Again, you're confusing it with premix. 32-1 and 50-1 are the correct amount of oil only some of the time. If I'm screaming, I want 32-1. If I'm riding lightly, I want (and need) much less oil. The amount of oil you need is only partly of a function of the fuel required, so the worst possible way of delivering it is to mix it in a static amount with the fuel. It can't adjust the amount based on any conditions.
    Oil injection does exactly that. It delivers less oil in the conditions you need it and more when it's required. That's the beauty of the system. It does exactly what you are afraid it's not doing, in a way that premix can't possibly do. Unless you are tapped out all the time, you're going to use less oil and still get as much protection as you need. That, and I don't change my jetting based high or low speed riding - or premix amount for that matter. The difference is inconsequential.

    I bet the 83-1 is an average based on a certain usage, and more corporate speak than anything.
    454x, Motosportz and ohmygewd like this.
  16. ohmygewd Husqvarna
    Pro Class

    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    13'Berg FE350, 96'WR360, 01 WR250
    Other Motorcycles:
    Aprilia RSV1000

    I agree with you but as l posted previously, us dirtbike riders and especially 2 banger guys are and will be skeptical of this system in the same way 4t people were skeptical of Fi and electric starts when they first appeared especially with the Husaberg/Husky's and Sherco when they appeared with is no kick starter...it's just human nature to be suspicious of change.

    Convincing the masses that regardless of the type of riding that you do that the EOI will deliver the correct amount of oil depending on TPS and engine load, of course you still need to jet the bike for the conditions (until Di or Fi becomes a reality), but to say there is no mixture is the very point of the skepticism, there has to be a mixture ratio, what is that ratio, is that ratio predetermined and fixed, can l change it, l spent 12k+ plus on this bike l want to know my engine is getting the right amount of oil...l want to trust this system!!
    You see, for decades we have been conditioned to run a certain premix ratio for the type of riding for maximum engine protection and power which our 4t guys were never conditioned too, but to all of a sudden put trust in a system that many have seen decades ago in mechanical oil injection and rejected, you could forgive 2t riders wanting more answers to their questions.

    I see EOI as a game changer but the manufacturers will need to really convince the 2t riders of the world that it will deliver not just in a model that barely sells...if Beta can do this then the ripple effect is Ktm/Husqvarna will get off their arses and produce this famed Di/Fi 2 stroke.

    Now, if Husqvarna can bring out the 350/360 2t motor into the 21st century...l could die happily :D
  17. lankydoug Husqvarna
    Pro Class

    Location:
    MO
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    WR
    Other Motorcycles:
    TM 300en
    Id like to see a diagram of how the oil is injected. Is it going in with the incoming fuel at the intake manifold or is it being injected directly into the crankshaft main bearing area?
  18. GMP Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    NJ
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    none
    Other Motorcycles:
    '13 Beta 300RR Racing
    One draw of a two stroke is simplicity. This goes a bit in the other direction. The options make it OK, but ask yourself if Euro emmision requirements were not in the equation would we be having this discussion? I seriously doubt it. This is no game changer, its just a spin on a requirement, thats it. The artical stated 1.2% max, max usually means maximum. No way in hell would I run my 300RR on 83:1 premix. I run 36:1, in all conditions, with GOOD JETTING, which is key. I have light chocolate color plugs and 100+ hr pistons with no blowby and just under new compression. In fact the last fouled plug I came across was in a Husky Xlite!

    As far as the system goes its just a modern electronic version of the old style from the '70s. The old OI system pumps were driven by a gear off the crank(RPM input), and throttled by a valve on the second end of a dual throttle cable(throttle position input), remember? So now we have TPS and tach inputs to an ECU driving an electric injector valve in the manifold(no bearing injection). More flexible control but the same result.

    Race with it for 100+ hrs, tear the motor down, show that it looks as good as mine and I'll beleive it. It still looses as far as simplicity however.
  19. Motosportz CH Sponsor

    Location:
    Vancouver WA
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    2021 TE250i, 570 Berg, 500 KTM, 790R
    Other Motorcycles:
    many
    For me personally I would like the simplicity of just filling the tank every 5 or so rides. I'd also like the savings in oil use.

    I highly doubt Beta would build a system that does not provide enough oil. I'm sure this has been tested extensively. It also might be delivering it in better ways like right to the main bearings leading to less oil needed.
    water racer and Zomby woof like this.
  20. GMP Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    NJ
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    none
    Other Motorcycles:
    '13 Beta 300RR Racing
    We will see. Short and long term are two different things, and no, there is no direct bearing injection like the old Suzuki CCI system. My point is if emission compliance is the driving force, all else is likely a compromise. When was the last time you rode a newer EFI street bike, especially a VTwin, that ran perfect off the floor? Ducati 1100s would get hot enough with the stock Euro 3 map/ECU to peel paint from the heads, but I'll bet you wouldn't expect that from Ducati if you havn't experienced it would you? Been there. Its no big deal really as I said earlier because its removable, and not a big impact on MSRP. Answer me this question please, would you start runnning all your two strokes on 83:1 mix tomorrow and feel good about it? You'll save oil.