449/511 Important Urgent Flywheel Inspection

I got bolts from my local engineering workshop and bolt supplier.

You may find this video helpful also.

View: https://youtu.be/cDyugxwStlo

In the CCM GP450 (, the latest incarnation of this engine), the recommendation for these bolts is tighten to 3Nm, then finish by tigtening an additional 45Degrees.

There is a factory option to upgrade the aternator to a higher output one; some early adopters have had these stators self-destruct. I wonder if the upgrade included a different flywheel too...

Either way, everybody should change the factory garbage screws and get it over with.

Failure rate is about 75% + at least, that they will fail eventually. Even for those that have opened the case up in the past and checked and said it was all good.. Big mistake !

The stock bolts left in there for any reason is a compromise that came from the factory first of all and will come back to bite you in your wallet later. If you have opened it up and didn't change them out, when you had the chance to swap them for a better quality fastener before when checking them earlier. Its just a ticking time bomb unless the bike just sits. This has happened to countless owners. Including "DM"

The original bolts will either start to back out and then just shear the heads off. Sometimes the bolt heads just snap off by themselves, since they have been stretched beyond the yield point of an inferior fastener. By then it has already started chewing up the windings like a caged wildcat.

I've seen more pictures of this flywheel bolt/stator destruction than anything else on this entire particular motorcycle. Add to that all the examples of the exact same thing happening to the BMW G450 X owners.

You neglect to do this and the stator windings I guarantee are toast either way. You will eventually open it to see a copper wire rat nest.

99% of the time the side cover gasket is reusable so there is no excuse for just looking at it without doing this bolt swap. Taking your chances over time spent replacing 6 bolts that might set you back all of about 3 or 4 dollars is just plain stupid.

Bsolutely Timmy. Did not intened to suggest that it not be done, just an observation that in later builds the correct torque has been defined in terms of an initial value followed by a fixed number of degrees...

"magwych", Much respect here buddy.

It has always been a "creep up to it method" in the BMW instructions, that's what I have always done on anything with a group of bolts situated in a circle. Just like a wheel on a car or truck. It was just instructed in the Torque Specs on the BMW and the 449/511s to "over" torque to 25NM. WTH ?

I didn't mean to imply that you were thinking otherwise or directing my response to you directly, So all I can say is, "I'm Sorry".

I appreciate your getting this information from the "CCM camp". I have always wondered about the higher output stator as well, like how it regulates that extra output using the standard voltage regulator? Or do they use the standard type "Voltage Regulator" ? and if not, do they sell the complete set up yet or not ? Are they finally offering it separate as spare parts from CCM ? I knew they listed a higher output stator but it has been impossible for anyone to buy one since they listed it and that's been since they had the first concept bikes and before production even began a few years now. I would like to know if that stator is finally available?

Several of the G450X riders are currently building their beloved G450X bikes into full on "Rally Raid Conversions". The "G450RR" conversion is very popular, still. These guys could sure use some extra power output from the stator assemblies. We have found most all of the inventors and supply people that still own the Intellectual rights to the designs and specific pieces that were used by the factory supported Speedbrain teams for the Rally bike conversions.

Due to popular demand. They are now again reproducing these rear subframe style large volume fuel tanks, Full RR fairings, navigation towers, down pipes, skid plates, oil cooler conversions and all the other specific related pieces. These Original parts manufactures world wide have also joined our "G450X Riders Forum and Registry". Which I am 1 of the Moderators of. So consequently, I am always looking for more information for these bike engines, bits and pieces.

I would think though, the coil windings must be a little bit heavier and physically larger, so flywheel screw clearance would be even more minimized in the flywheel stator area. I don't believe the flywheel has changed or is physically any larger, or specific to the higher output stator coils.

I just find it quite interesting that they (CCM) have decided to specify anyone to torque these bolts to 3NM, then continue to measure final torque by swinging these little bolts to an additional 45 degree angle? This could easily give varying torque readings big time. I also wonder if they are still using these original semi hollow shank low profile 6mm x 1.00 pitch x 12mm long screws.

I mean what do they expect people to do to get these all correctly torqued, I know I'm a bit "OCD" if you couldn't tell that already. But are we to torque to 3 NM then break out the Protractors, Angle finders, Inclinometers and all the carpenter or metal fabrication and lay out tools? I'm not trying to be funny but really?

If you have anything but a beam type or dial torque wrench and the bike is standing vertically straight up. The ratchet teeth slack alone in a clicker type torque wrench and the slop of any 3/8" to 1/4" drive reducers if used, or just the socket directly on the drive head alone or the Allen head in the socket head of the screws, would have a few degrees up or down of slop while trying to do this. So accuracy doing this would be very difficult to say the least.

This is again a poor instructional specification and at best a risky solution to an obvious problem. I would imagine the new CCM owners are going to be posting pictures of there magnetized rat nests too, very, very, soon.

There will be CCM failures for sure, as the setup has never been resolved.

As for your lengthy talk about the torque method, lots of companies use the 'stretch' method on bolts, it is quite common.
More often for head bolts, but increasingly on others around engines too.
An initial torque is applied, then the bolt is turned to a set angle to stretch the bolt.

I get it "David" and am very familiar with this "one time use" bolt torque method.

My experience has been to replace these subject factory fasteners in just about everything I own, with higher quality hardware. Such as ARP. I have always used head studs screwed into the block with fine threaded nuts instead, just to get away from this kind of nonsense. So I don't have to throw them out after just one use either.

I have always torqued the cap screws on my Billet Rods in my Aluminum Chrysler Hemi drag race engines to the stretch method. Measuring the rod bolts free length first. I have a connecting rod vise that I use to cycle the rod bolts through a few torqued/stretch cycles before they ever get put into the engine. Then I torque them during installation to a set amount using a rod bolt stretch gauge designed just for doing this once they are installed. Any rod bolts that don't come back to their original lengths measuring and using that stretch gauge after running the engine during the next tear down for a freshening, get tossed out.

Not knowing how much they have been stretched is the gray area? In the type of application I have just described though, it is easily measured as both ends of the rod bolts once installed are able to be accessed to actually measure them.

It just seems a bit ridiculous for CCM to expect owners to do this on one group of 6 small 6mm fasteners on the entire bike. When this should have desperately been changed long ago.

Just did the bolts on my 2012. They were perfectly tight and had plenty of thread locker on them. Figured I better change them anyways. Used new new 12.9 bolts and red loktite, I hope they hold.

Just happend to mine at 8xxx miles every single bolt was lose.

Sad but there goes another one, just like the other ones.

The saga continues.

If these bikes didn't burn out their power supply to their "Brains" and could actually talk and would talk.

They would nearly all have like minded statements to make. Warning each other world wide.

Its about like the bikes are all a bunch of related cousins that all shared the same families blood stream and all eventually had the same internal organ failures.

Eventually a transplant is in order for all of them to make it to old age.

We re-warn our Facebook group owners to check and replace the flywheel screws with store bought cap screws and loctite.

Sorry for you, it's not fun or cheap.

Thanks for the warning I must check mine when I am in Brazil.i will have to take bolts with me.i have quickly read the many posts on this subject. Was a definite alternative bolt found and if so what dimensions or any links that I can buy for uk delivery.
Many thanks

I've been meaning to say this to the guys who have suffered this damage, but keep forgetting to. Anyways- if this happens to you, save the pick-up coil if it hasn't been damaged. Just snip the wires (long as possible), un-bolt it and put it on the shelf.

The ignition you save could be your own.

chipster- the screws you want are socket head cap screws M6-1.0x12mm grade 12.9

As above, or grade 10.9 also.
M6 x 12mm cap screws.

Hi all,

Wanting to make the change to the fly wheel bolts, Question is do you have to take the fly wheel off to replace the bolts or do you just remove them one at a time and replace them as you go. BI don't have a fly wheel puller so wanting to know what others have done.

Traffa986

Traffa,
No you don't need to remove the flywheel.
Its open or cupped side faces out on the crankshafts end and the stator coils and cdi pickup are mounted in the outer side case that you need to remove.
It will have some snugness from magnetic pull to pull it off, but the gasket should be just fine and re-usable if you are careful.
Just lay the bike over on its right side or lean it over far enough to set the grip on a 5 gallon bucket or your bikes center stand.
Then remove the shifter and side case screws and you got it.
Just remove the screws in the flywheel one at a time be careful to keep the allen head socket square and bottomed out in each screw. They can be stubborn and a quality Allen head socket is a must.

Hope to Check mine soon, bike has approx. 1,100 miles on it. Got a set at cap screws at home depot, they seem to be stamped with grade 12.9. $0.98 for 2X. Are these good enough?

Thanks Big Timmy for the detailed reply.

As above, good info Tim

This is the correct screws: low profile, hex, 12,9
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M6-x-12mm-Grade-12-9-Low-Head-Hex-Socket-Cap-Screws-High-Tensile-Allen-Bolts/122527768232?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&var=422961599393&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649