AF-XIED Beta for Husqvarna TR650

[engineerk9]

Geeza, Well done with the log. Looking through it now. Several good WOT accelerations captured. I'll show an interesting plot later but here is what happens:

Bike in 4th Gear
-2000 rpm stead cruise 13.8 AFR

Throttle open to ~80% (limiter installed)
--AFR instantly goes lean to about 16:1 or so for about half a second. I have noticed the TR650 does this more than others I've looked at. It's a leaner longer blip.
--2000 to ~5000 RPM bike accelerates and AFR increases from 13.8 to ~12:1 somewhat evenly, no lean spot
--5000 to 6000 RPM bike continues to accelerate AFR increases from 12:1 to 11:1. ECUs ofter increase richness in this area to cool the exhaust and protect the engine with extra fuel

RB

Is this using the AF-XIED ? On what setting ?

 

[Roger 04 RT]

Geeza is running an Innovate Motor Sports LC-2 set at lambda=0.94. That is the equivalent of an AF-XIED setting 8. You can see that in the steady state cruise at 2000 rpm, which is 13.8:1 or lambda=0.94.

 

[drzcharlie]

I may get to do my run tomorrow. Snow and sleet have mostly melted away. It's supposed to be warmer tomorrow.

 

[Roger 04 RT]

This dyno report was posted on February 5.

My Dyno results this morning, note the motor stumbling at 2,000rpm, which generally is the stall in slow moving traffic & the extreme lean at 4,300rpm with detonation
Any comments?

engineerk9's AF-XIED arrived on February 18

Hi Roger my AF-XIED arrived this afternoon

A couple of questions if I may?

Dyno tests this morning indicated that after nearly 1,000klm my 11 ohm resistor in series with the AIT had adapted out as expected & predicted
Now tomorrow when I install the AF-XIED would you suggest leaving the resistor in or remove it ?

Secondly, batteries - any comments on Lithium batteries for the Terra ?

Thirdly, how is your unit progressing? Will it be a plug'n'play?

Many thanks for your input into this "mob", I don't think that there are very many Husky's here in Australia

Pre detonation or pinging, I believe is what you are referring to.

...

Is the AFxied a contributing factor? When did the pinging start, before or after its install? If you say after, you know what you have to do, remove it. If pinging was before adding it, I would remove it, take bike to dealer and get the bike fixed, then decide if you need to add it.

So I think we have the answer, the pinging preceded the installation of the AF-XIED.

Now onward to an interesting WOT plot from Geeza.

 

[Roger 04 RT]

I've got the Geeza's data plotted and ready to post the WOT runs. Before I post those I'm adding some Cold Start data that was at the beginning of the test run.

For those of you who are interested how the TR650 is fueled during a Cold Start (meaning the bike sat overnight), here is a plot made from data supplied by Geeza. You can see the various phases of fueling from start to Closed Loop. Geeza is running his bike at Lambda = 0.94 which is a 6% enrichment (13.8:1 in pure gas terms).

It's interesting to note just how rich the MM ECU fuels the bike for the first second or two, then tapers it off (all of this without reference to the O2 sensor, Open Loop). Then at about the 50 second mark in enters Closed Loop and is idling at 13.8:1.

Geeza is running an LC-2 but the results would look the same if you were running an AF-XIED on setting 8.

 

[Roger 04 RT]

Geeza also ran multiple WOT test runs in 4th gear on his TR650. The procedure he used was:

--Stabilize and cruise at 2000 RPM in 4th gear.
--Fully open the throttle until 6000 RPM is reached.

This is like a test run on a dyno but much better. The improvements are:

1) While cruising at 2000 RPM in 4th, there is a load on the engine caused by the bike being on a road and having to overcome road and wind resistance. (On a dyno, the bike is sitting still and the inertial cylinder presents no load except when the rear wheel is accelerating. Also, the dyno load is often much less than the resistance caused by the mass of bike and rider, plus the increasing wind resistance.)

2) The Wideband AFR sensor is ahead of the catalytic converter and is more accurately recording the AFR immediately following the exhaust valves.

The results above are for Geeza's bike running at an LC-2 setting of 13.8:1, which would be the same as AF-XIED setting 8. Here are some key points:

--When the throttle is first opened the AFR spikes to about 17:1. This is not good in that it creates a momentary power lag. This may be a natural tendency of the TR650 or it may be due to the POD mod or some other intake tract changes.

--Quickly after beginning WOT, the AFR reaches about 12.4:1 and then gets slightly leaner at about 13:1. This is acceptable and the early richness is probably due to the MM ECU trying to catch up on the fuel dried off the intake walls from the instantaneous throttle opening. Note that there is no sign of leanness in the mid-RPMs. (And if the LC-2 was set to 14.7:1 (stock), the AFR in the mid-RPM's would still be an acceptable 13.9:1.)

--After a short time at 13:1 the mixture steadily richens until 5000 RPM in a predictable manner, reaching about 11.8:1.

--Finally, from 5000 to 6000 RPM it reaches an AFR of about 11:1. Likely it is richer than best power, but many engines are fueled in this manner so that at peak HP, there is extra fuel for cooling the combustion chamber and exhaust valves.

Following the WOT test you can see some other interesting points:

--A Deceleration Lean-Off to about 15:1

--A small throttle movement acceleration enrichment to about 13:1

--During Cruise operation the ECU works with the LC-2 and quickly and predicably returns to target AFR of 13.8:1

RB

 

[engineerk9]

This dyno report was posted on February 5.
View attachment 51839





engineerk9's AF-XIED arrived on February 18







So I think we have the answer, the pinging preceded the installation of the AF-XIED.

Now onward to an interesting WOT plot from Geeza.

Hi Roger - the effects of sea-sickness on memory? Or just old?
What do you know of these peopl?
Alientech Newsletter <mailing@alientech.to>

 

[engineerk9]

Geeza also ran multiple WOT test runs in 4th gear on his TR650. The procedure he used was:

--Stabilize and cruise at 2000 RPM in 4th gear.
--Fully open the throttle until 6000 RPM is reached.

This is like a test run on a dyno but much better. The improvements are:

1) While cruising at 2000 RPM in 4th, there is a load on the engine caused by the bike being on a road and having to overcome road and wind resistance. (On a dyno, the bike is sitting still and the inertial cylinder presents no load except when the rear wheel is accelerating. Also, the dyno load is often much less than the resistance caused by the mass of bike and rider, plus the increasing wind resistance.)

2) The Wideband AFR sensor is ahead of the catalytic converter and is more accurately recording the AFR immediately following the exhaust valves.

The results above are for Geeza's bike running at an LC-2 setting of 13.8:1, which would be the same as AF-XIED setting 8. Here are some key points:

--When the throttle is first opened the AFR spikes to about 17:1. This is not good in that it creates a momentary power lag. This may be a natural tendency of the TR650 or it may be due to the POD mod or some other intake tract changes.

--Quickly after beginning WOT, the AFR reaches about 12.4:1 and then gets slightly leaner at about 13:1. This is acceptable and the early richness is probably due to the MM ECU trying to catch up on the fuel dried off the intake walls from the instantaneous throttle opening. Note that there is no sign of leanness in the mid-RPMs. (And if the LC-2 was set to 14.7:1 (stock), the AFR in the mid-RPM's would still be an acceptable 13.9:1.)

--After a short time at 13:1 the mixture steadily richens until 5000 RPM in a predictable manner, reaching about 11.8:1.

--Finally, from 5000 to 6000 RPM it reaches an AFR of about 11:1. Likely it is richer than best power, but many engines are fueled in this manner so that at peak HP, there is extra fuel for cooling the combustion chamber and exhaust valves.

Following the WOT test you can see some other interesting points:

--A Deceleration Lean-Off to about 15:1

--A small throttle movement acceleration enrichment to about 13:1

--During Cruise operation the ECU works with the LC-2 and quickly and predicably returns to target AFR of 13.8:1

RB

In theory the Pod-mod will slow the air flow during acceleration, length of inlet tract before the throttle valve, which should give a richer fuel reading, the air mass held within the filter moving relatively slowly, similarly the air momentum could cause an extreme lean on de-acceleration
Unless we seal the Pod-mod airbox the air box is no longer under pressure from the bike's forward motion
This could also be one of the reasons the fueling is so rich at 6,000rpm, Taking into account that on the road the bike's speed & position of air inlet would give a "ram-air" effect, pressurised airbox
The effective length of the Pod-mod inlet tract would stabilise air flow, less turbulence means more air into the engine during cruise
Many newer cars & motorcycles have variable length inlet tracts for similar reasons

 

[engineerk9]

In theory the Pod-mod will slow the air flow during acceleration, length of inlet tract before the throttle valve, which should give a richer fuel reading, the air mass held within the filter moving relatively slowly, similarly the air momentum could cause an extreme lean on de-acceleration
Unless we seal the Pod-mod airbox the air box is no longer under pressure from the bike's forward motion
This could also be one of the reasons the fueling is so rich at 6,000rpm, Taking into account that on the road the bike's speed & position of air inlet would give a "ram-air" effect, pressurised airbox
The effective length of the Pod-mod inlet tract would stabilise air flow, less turbulence means more air into the engine during cruise
Many newer cars & motorcycles have variable length inlet tracts for similar reasons

Hi Roger - the effects of sea-sickness on memory? Or just old?
What do you know of these peopl?
Alientech Newsletter <mailing@alientech.to>

Was there detonation at 2,000 rpm on WOT, the AFR would indicate that there was ?

 

[Roger 04 RT]

Pinging? You'll have to ask Geeza. Since the high AFR is transient and only for about half a second, I don't think so.

The question is what causes the momentary, transient lean-off when the throttle is opened? Too much air too quickly and too little fuel on the walls of the TB.

 

[Geeza]

Pinging? You'll have to ask Geeza. Since the high AFR is transient and only for about half a second, I don't think so.

The question is what causes the momentary, transient lean-off when the throttle is opened? Too much air too quickly and too little fuel on the walls of the TB.

No pinging on these runs and have not experienced any pinging on this bike before or after LC2 installation.
In terms of airflow, I not only have the pod mod but have also modified the air intake/air box door, heaps more airflow.
Some of the lean off may also be from me trying to hold a steady 2 grand in 4 th gear while looking out for the boys in blue before going WOT!

 

[drzcharlie]

Unless we seal the Pod-mod airbox the air box is no longer under pressure from the bike's forward motion

The effective length of the Pod-mod inlet tract would stabilise air flow, less turbulence means more air into the engine during cruise
Many newer cars & motorcycles have variable length inlet tracts for similar reasons

Interesting, My air box has been sealed since day one but with gorilla tape. However I did put three 3/8" holes in the bottom of the air box in case water was ingested due to the wide open intake. My son is a mechanical engineers with his specialty in HVAC and exotic clean air systems. He did the calculations on the pod filter and found it to be only 3% bigger than the surface area of the original filters surface area. Is this enough to have made that difference.

 

[engineerk9]

Pinging? You'll have to ask Geeza. Since the high AFR is transient and only for about half a second, I don't think so.

The question is what causes the momentary, transient lean-off when the throttle is opened? Too much air too quickly and too little fuel on the walls of the TB.

Now THAT is the question ?
In theory, opening the throttle rapidly would create a low pressure in the inlet tract, until the air started to flow & gain some momentum

 

[engineerk9]

Interesting, My air box has been sealed since day one but with gorilla tape. However I did put three 3/8" holes in the bottom of the air box in case water was ingested due to the wide open intake. My son is a mechanical engineers with his specialty in HVAC and exotic clean air systems. He did the calculations on the pod filter and found it to be only 3% bigger than the surface area of the original filters surface area. Is this enough to have made that difference.

I suggest he calculates the area of the tube connecting the Pod-mod to the silicon elbow as against the 41mm diameter of the rubber sealing ring on top of the throttle body 50 mm as against 41mm - that's a huge increase in possible air flow

 

[engineerk9]

Pinging? You'll have to ask Geeza. Since the high AFR is transient and only for about half a second, I don't think so.

The question is what causes the momentary, transient lean-off when the throttle is opened? Too much air too quickly and too little fuel on the walls of the TB.

A number of high performance bikes have a secondary inject above the throttle valve to inject fuel at that instant of snapping WOT

I'm not sure that any fuel would attach to the throttle body, I think engine heat would evaporate it

 

[LED]

Now THAT is the question ?
In theory, opening the throttle rapidly would create a low pressure in the inlet tract, until the air started to flow & gain some momentum

Pardon me for jumping in on this. I'm interested as I've recently done the pod mod and relocated the AIT sensor outside the airbox just above the radiator. I'm now considering getting an LC-2. I have no real experience with engine modifications and performance so don't feel qualified to offer anything that may be of value. So feel free to ignore if I'm talking s - - t.

I'm curious that some feel they have increased performance since the pod mod. I can't say that I've noticed an increase. What I have noticed is a sort of induction honking, if that is what you call it, during hard acceleration. Is this induction honking during hard acceleration an effect of much lower pressure along the now longer inlet tract ? Almost like the pod mod acting like a vent in a bass reflex loudspeaker. If so, then perhaps the differences in surface area alone would not tell us if the pod mod has significantly changed how much air is available to the throttle body across the rev range. Would not the length of the silicon pipe + spacer + pipe in filter have an effect ?

 

[Roger 04 RT]

The lean-off is one issue, but should be tested a lot more before drawing conclusions. Notice that the second acceleration after WOT has no lean-off.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the LC-2 takes a lot of care and feeding, and installation skill. You get the same effect with an AF-XIED, simple to install and as bullet-proof as the stock O2 sensor.

Also, notice how well the mm ECU enriches fueling during the WOT segment.

 

[Roger 04 RT]

A number of high performance bikes have a secondary inject above the throttle valve to inject fuel at that instant of snapping WOT

I'm not sure that any fuel would attach to the throttle body, I think engine heat would evaporate it

Check out this good article on wall-wetting. It is a major source of transient fuel.

http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/xtau.htm

 

[Roger 04 RT]

I went back and looked at all 5 of the WOT tests that are in the log. The graph that I showed is the last of the 5. Here is a summary of the 5:

--All had the same basic shape for enrichment that I described above: 12.5, then 13, then 12, finally 11:1 at 6,000 RPM

--Four of the five had some type of transient lean-off

--The range of transient lean-off was roughly between 15.5 and 17:1

--Smaller throttle movements didn't always show the lean-off

My suggestion is that other riders with the LC-2 set up the same test and make sure that the throttle is motionless for several seconds before WOT, and then move the throttle only in the direction of WOT. This will make sure that the data isn't showing any rider-induced lean-off.

 

[engineerk9]

Check out this good article on wall-wetting. It is a major source of transient fuel.

http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/xtau.htm

Thanks Roger Interesting read, the high performance Suzuki & Yamaha's use a secondary injector before the throttle to compensate similar to this technology, I note his original research was in 1980

I'd like to see the differential air pressure before & after the throttle valve
Also, more thought regarding the length of the Inlet Tract - I think each one of our mods has a different length Tract, between Tube end & throttle valve - from memory the original pre-Mod Pod would be 40mm, post Mod Pod would be closer to 150mm, possibly more

I do agree that your AF-XIED unit is possibly the simplest & most effective of all the ecu "enhancers"

Tuesday or Wednesday I'll be testing mine on #8 - extremely rough sea conditions has postponed the project for some time