the OEMs, mostly the none 2 stroke producing ones are driving this boat more than any...it wont happen because they put a ton of money into the 4 st and its here for a while....but if we can pass this and KTM or Husky or whoever could hit a homerun and win a few...then it could turn the big fours heads....that is also why i dont think anyone but KTm will make a 350...too much money in the 450 now... and that pic of bubba is sick....love it...
I don't think we are name calling,just passionate about our sport. Believe me,we are not hurting anyones feelings. Don't get me wrong, I love 4 strokes [TE250 05] but it's not doing me any good by probably needing crank bearings & I will probably go to a 310 rebuild while I'm at it. But quess what? I have to wait awhile. My past 2 strokes would be up & running much quicker. This does not generate 4 stroke sales. Most people have to fix the bike before getting a new one.[about 1500 to $2000]. I really don't know what I'm going to buy next. Maybe play more Golf We need more high technical 2 strokes around & racing Nationals would do this. It would also be easier on the consumer maintenance wise. Also there is talk about the 450's getting dangerously fast. Why don't they come down on displacement which may help even the field for 2 strokes?
everyone be respectful and tasteful. personal opinions with decorum are welcome. Please just take this to heart. My 2 cents is the rule is valid in FIM MX so why not AMA. Joe
Petition signed. There is also another way to get what we want in this situation. If you want to see more 2 stroke development and options, go out and buy a 2 stroke. Every manufacturer out there is only going to pour R&D money into something they think they will get that money back out of sometime in the future. No one is pouring big money into 2 stroke development for one very simple reason.... they aren't selling as well as 4 strokes. Your wallet is like a voting ballot. Every time you spend money on something you are voting for what you would like that company to produce more of. If Husky, KTM, Yamaha or who ever sell out of 2 strokes this year, guess where they are going to place a significant chunk of focus on next year? I am as guilty if not more than anyone in subscribing to the 4 stroke revolution. I jumped ship from 2 to 4 in the mid '90's when Husky was the only MFG who built a 4 stoke that could hold a candle to a 2 stroke. But I will be returning to a 2 stroke in the near future. When a new 4 stoke MXer cost the same as a compact car something is wrong. We do have the ability to change this if we want. The power is in our hands....errr maybe more accurately the power is under our right butt cheek. Just my .02
Right ...everyone tries to put the 'its the right thing to do logic' to this equation... but that ain't reality ... These are huge money machines here .. honda, yama-hammer ...ama .. They only understand money and if the money is good currently, why change? Ever notice the ama never says a word? Makes changes slowly? They do not wanna fu&&& k anything up they have going ... They hold all the cards and you ain't gonna see them ... This petition is good and can generate a lot of votes, maybe enough to turn some heads ... but these ama guys are business people with business in mind ... the big 4 are their business ... .... Let the attendance drop at the races and they will start crying like babies
I think it is and awesome idea and I think it would be close and different tracks may favor one or the other. I myself am faster on a 125 2 stroke then a 250 4 stroke. Not sure why. Set up a 6 mile single track loop and did back to back testing. 125 ALWAYS won. Gave up and sold the 4-stroke. It is a good idea and maybe someday we will see some type of fuel injection (what about etec technology that skidoo snowmobiles have?) Less emission and good mileage! Would be entertaining to see the 2 and 4 stroke going at it for sure!
It would be really cool to see both types racing side by side .... Almost like a race inside a race ...
Probably be better to get a few hundred thousand to sign the petition and send it to the big 4 instead of the AMA. Only the Euros and ATK are making 2 strokes in relatively small numbers these days. The japs could be, but won't since the bean counters took over all the decision making 20 years ago. Different types of circuits and different types of riders will favor one type of bike over the other. In a flat out drag race, a 250 4t mxer will win every time vs a 150 2t mxer. It only starts to even out when the 2t gets close to about 200cc or so. Deep sand - the little 2t will be at a huge disadvantage. A tight flowing loamy track will be an advantage for the little 2t.
Another thing that can get the attention of the big 4 is sales of 2ts by the small 4. Guess which bike KTM sold the most last year? The 2t 300. I think the tides are turning a bit but it will take a tsunami to move the AMA.
I don't see it. Strong lobbying from the OEM wasn't what got us here was it? It was rule changes by the AMA, which the OEMs then built to take advantage of. isn't that how racing has always worked, the racing organization puts out a set of rules, then the builders set out to build the fastest machine they can afford to build that abides by those rules? Now that the OEMs are building four strokes and finding them more profitable, why would they want to go back to how things were before? The OEMs don't want to go back to two strokes which made them less money on the initial sale and much less money on parts. The dealers don't want to go back to two strokes and cut the size of their service departments in half. And any decent business I know makes it's decisions on what sells, not what customers ask for. If we send them a petition with a million votes for more two strokes and then don't buy any two strokes I don't see them putting their R&D dollars there. Now you could say we should all go out and buy two strokes and that would drive the OEM's to build them and then push the AMA to make them more competitive but I don't think it works that way. I believe it goes more like this, the racing organization has to make two strokes a cost effective competitive choice, then racers will start buying them, then manufacturers will increase their R&D towards a product that has become a larger portion of their total sales. The AMA killed the two stroke in MX/SX and the only way I see them coming back starts with the AMA.
The 4 stroke displacement advantage had been in place for many years before the current rise of 4 strokes. It actually used to be a max of 550 cc for 4 strokes in what used to be called the 250 class! Husky won the 500cc world championship with a TC610 back in '93. So 4 strokes were always allowed a displacement advantage to compete with 2 strokes. Once Yamaha decided to try their hand at the 4 stroke thing and were successful, the AMA lowered the limit from 550cc to 450cc. I don't think anyone could have predicted just how successful 4 strokes would become, thus they were allowed possibly too much displacement advantage.
Yep, that was how I saw it too. 1. The AMA opened up the rules for someone to build a four stroke far more powerful than the two strokes. 2. Eventually someone built one. 3. Racers found it more competitive and bought them. 4. The other factories jumped on board and started building more of them. 5. Eventually the two strokes stopped being competitive due to the rule changes and people stopped racing them. I think it takes a while for these things to build up a head of steam anyway, even if the rule changes were made tomorrow, and were enough to kick start a swing back to more competitive racing I don't think we'd see much in less than 5 years but maybe I'm just a pessimist. Well, of course there are plenty of guys who say the two strokes are still competitive, I just haven't seen one of them actually back it up and start on the main of a national MX or SX race in years. I'd like to though. Or those who compare woods, desert, endurocross, or extreme enduro racing to MX or SX but to me that is about like comparing nascar to rally car racing, I just can't even see where to jump in and start participating in that discussion so I just let it pass me by.
I agree. In case anyone else is confused, he was referring to an earlier post, which was quickly edited after he made this post. Has anyone signed the petition?
Signed. One more for voting with my wallet, currently I own 4 two strokes but I have realized I have a problem and will be selling a couple soon.
I certainly hope you go to some other forums and ask for signatures ... Husky riders are a minority at best ...
