I buy shims from MX-Tech. Beware, everybody that sells shims charges like 10-15 bucks S&H. Sorta makes sense, they have to deal with sorting a packing a bunch of tiny parts, but it can be frustrating when it doubles the cost of your order. I think people have thrown a lot of great ideas into this thread. Kelly, open that shock up and let's all take a crack at that, and then you can do some more work on the forK!
Wow, that was not fun. Pretty obvious why the shock sucks so bad. Piston was stuck in the resi. Almost gave up trying to get it apart as even after i let the pressure out the piston was stuck and the shock pressurised and could not depress the cap to remove the clip. Sprayed liquid wrench in there and pressurized it a few times and nothing. took a socket and hammered the resi cap down and got it to sick long enough to remove the clip. then everything broke free at once. White nasty oil and air that smelled like dead fish came out. There was a huge dead spot when pushing up and down on it and I knew something was up especially as it was still pressurised after I remove the schrader. ANYWAY, got it apart and will post shim sizes soon. Looks OK and I think I can get it back together and working. Was doubtful but persiverance paid off once again. I'm sure it has never been serviced. Just putting fresh oil in would be a huge improvemnt.
OK here we go... Reb stack: 17.98 - 2.0 fat clamp 17.96 - .30 21.97 - .27 25.97 - .26 29.95 - .26 31.99 - .30 35.96 - .30 34.02/17.88 - .30 this is the one in the picture where there is and inner and outer ring, Has this sheered? Very odd and looks like it was made that way 37.98 - .30 37.98 - .30 37.98 - .25 Comp stack: 22.98 - .30 24.95 - .25 27.97 - .25 29.97 - .25 31.97 - .20 34.00 - .20 35.97 - .24 37.97 - .20 39.97 - .20 41.98 - .20 31.97 - .15 XO 41.97 - .20 41.97 - .20 (4) 43.97 - .20 Seems like some stiff settings there. Let me know what you thin and what I should put back in for slower speed tight technical roots and rocks. Looming for old man compliance more than bottoming resistance. Going to clean that stinky shock up and get it ready to go back together. then I'll check back. here is that odd two part shim
hurry up man ready to slap it back together and enjoy my friday night. Dont make me guess. thinking of just doing something similar to the front. Remove some high speed, one low speed and the odd rebound and call it good. Shock cleaned, oiled and bled as good as I can. Ready for reassembly. so something like this... Reb stack: 17.98 - 2.0 fat clamp 17.96 - .30 21.97 - .27 25.97 - .26 29.95 - .26 31.99 - .30 35.96 - .30 remove 34.02/17.88 - .30 this is the one in the picture where there is and inner and outer ring, Has this sheered? Very odd and looks like it was made that way 37.98 - .30 37.98 - .30 37.98 - .25 Comp stack: 22.98 - .30 24.95 - .25 remove 27.97 - .25 29.97 - .25 31.97 - .20 remove 34.00 - .20 35.97 - .24 remove 37.97 - .20 39.97 - .20 41.98 - .20 31.97 - .15 XO 41.97 - .20 41.97 - .20 remove one of these (4) 43.97 - .20 Thoughts?
The "ring shim" in the rebound stack is normal. It basically preloads the stack. All these specs are pretty much what they've run for the last ten years.
removed a face shim (low speed) and added smaller clamping shims so the high speed will bend EZer and removed one high speed shim for more flex. All back together and sag set right. Testing tomorrow. Thanks all.
That's interesting. Motorhead, have you seen that setup on comp before where there is taper (44 then 42) before the crossover? I've seen 2-piece crossovers, but this doesn't quite look like that. I like things in the opposite order (face shims first) and I cleaned up the dimensions. Changes I would recommend in bold: 44.2 (3X) (was 4X) 42.2 (was 2X) 32.15 42.2 40.2 38.2 36.2 34.2 32.2 30.25 28.25 25.25 23.3 20.3 (add this. 20.2 or 20.25 will also work) So, remove 1 face shim, remove on of the 42.2s before the crossover, add a 20mm clamp. The clamp is a significant/important change, definitely don't skip that! I'd start here. There are some other changes you definitely could try... for example, you could go down to 30 or 28m on the crossover (keep the same thickness). You could also go to thinner shims (0.20 instead of 0.25 and 0.30) on the HSS. You could also go down to 18mm on the clamp. If the shock is still too stiff, I'd look at doing those things. On rebound, I'm honestly not sure I'd change anything yet. That stack is almost exactly what came in my WR, and I have tried a bunch stuff, but I am now back close to stock and it seems fine. I think rebound is subjective too, some guys like a bike loose (more traction but busy) and some guys like it slow (feels more controlled, might not hook as much). I know guys on here who are running significantly stiffer reb than stock, and guys who are running significantly softer... The ring shim is a cool little trick, Sachs likes them a lot. What it does is preload the stack against the face of the piston so it takes more force before it initially opens. This creates more low speed damping without having more highspeed. IMO the needs of rebound are different than the needs of comp, and this "should" help with chassis control over bumps, whoops (lowspeed motion) while allowing the wheel to react on bumpy terrain (highspeed). Plenty of guys run the opposite way though (crossovers), and seem to like it, so who knows.
Yes, I've seen that before. Use to be more common, but some still do it. I do it, if that's what it takes.
Cool, I had not seen that. Seems odd, just because I figure using another face shim there instead seems "simpler" but will probably be just about the same as far as stiffness. Kelly, what'd you end up running and how'd it work out?
I took one face shim out, one in the middle of the high speed stack and added two .2 clamping shims. I'm shooting for too soft as is seems 90% of the time I'm trying to make them softer and have the clickers all the way out. Did a 61 mile ride through my favorite local trail. Conditions were epic, 55 degrees and coffee ground dirt. This area is very technical and steep. Climb up one side of a mountain and down the other all day. We started with 5 riders, one had a shock blow 11 miles in. Two (on KTMs) went back to the truck on the road at about 45-50 miles as they were spent 10 miles before that. The two oldests guys on an 07 and 02 huskies kept riding and enjoying This area is very rocky, big loose rocks, lots of embedded rocks, roots and lots of slow technical stuff. I ride this area a lot as it is the best stuff local and as such is the target I am trying to get this bike to work in. Did lots of clicking of the adjusters front and back. First off the shock is a HUGE improvement but and would have been just unsticking the resi piston and adding oil. As I mentioned this shock was a mess. Before revalve if you flipped it upside down it would move over and inch with zero damping. Was obviously half full of oil, piston stuck on resi, not enough spring preload and the oil that was in there was white foaming fish oil. No wonder I was semi disappointed with the handling. Anyway the mods did exactly what I had hoped. Bike is amazing in the rocks a roots. Tracks super straight through the nasties and I felt I could do no wrong. Handling went from confused to seriously one of the best turning bikes ever. Now that the suspension is riding in the right place with damping I like the bike turning is fantastic. Very neutral, very planted, does what you want all the time and can place it on the trail with amazing accuracy. This bike feels very light for some reason. Very nimble and reactive while still very planted and stable. Once again, like with my reworked 04 CR165 these 02-04 generation of huskys just work right for me. I love the ergonomics and thin feel, how they are so neutral handling wise and forgiving. OK back to the suspension. Its not perfect but it is a huge step in the right direction and very happy with it as is. Like I said it tracks amazingly well, deflects of nothing, is plush, hitting rocks of any size and root wads and 1.5 foot step-ups with roots as the top part is exactly what I hoped for. My trail speed with this compliance, the fantastic handling and the amazing motor was very high yesterday even though I was knocking it back a notch due to some recent get offs and painful body parts (shoulder and hand). I was in that hero zone where you can do no wrong. Bike never hit the ground as everybody else had several interesting get offs. Bike is really coming around and went from a cool semi vintage bike to one of my favorite mounts for this type of riding. I was gaping our group by huge margins and was not trying hard to do it. So amazing what bike setup can do for you. So thats the good news. I could leave it just like this and be happy as a clam. But where is it not real good? On large G-outs, big hits and large stroke type things it blows through the rear. The front I was able to dial to within 90% plus of my needs and am really pretty happy with it. Handles the bigger hits well, does not deflect, tracks and steers wonderful and is comfortable. Not like super amazing end all forks but very good and right about where I want them. If anything on the forks it seems the rebound could be better. The rear is very good on slower roots and rocks. Gobbles the nasties up and the bike stays very planted and tracking straight, this was a big part of my increased speed as you can pick straight lines to corners and not worry about the bike being all over the place and always compensating or worrying about trail junk. Where it struggles in in the faster chop. Gets a little harsh feeling like soft compression is making it pack down. I tried increasing the low speed adjusters to hold it up but that made it worse. I tried loosening the rebound to get it to stay up in the travel better but it becomes to loose and did not really solve the problem. All that said even as soft as it is you can charge this stuff and the bike stays dead straight and does not buck. I can live with this. Maybe some different valving would resolve this and I might try some suggestions to sort it but really all suspension is a trade off. As is I am VERY happy with it and it does everything I hopped it would. The clickers ended up near the middle of the range which is good and did seem to have a lot of affect when twisted. This was a resounding success for me and look forward to further refining this bike. Oh, i just remembered I used air in the shock and could only manage 135 pounds so 160 or so of nitrogen might help some too. On a side note the amazing motor in this thing feels even better with the wheels following the ground so closely and putting the power down. I traded off with my buddy on a 07 WR250 and there is no comparison, the CR250 has way more power, is more usable and surprisingly not violent. He loved it and was semi disappointed in his bake afterwards. (now there is one more guy looking for a 02 CR250 ignition) Can be short shifted and lugged like a perfect running 300 (actually reminds me of the 300rr beta I just rode), has sweet mid range and big top end. Bike makes great power from 2 rpm to redline and is super linear. Impossible to stall and pulls from so ridiculously low you do stupid stuff to see what you can get away with. I need a new muffler (to loud and leaks everywhere / annoying) and a lectron carb (because i love them and want more milage as well) and the motor will be ridiculous. I dropped the needle in the stock carb and it really runs very good but I like how the Lectrons work much better. The 7/8th inch bars with crossbars are a nice bend but might have to go, after riding with fatbars forever these feel harsh and unforgiving. Also these 250 huskys vibrate a good amount and I found it semi irritating for the first few miles before I learned to ignore it. I think fatbars will squelch some of this. Thanks a ton for the help guys. The bike is completely transformed into 95% of what I was hoping. The suspension changes made the bike handle and react amazing, the motor is amazing and the bike just flat works for me. There are very few bikes I would choose to ride this gnar with over my much loved and totally reworked 04 CR165 but this one just pushed its way into "take me this time" zone big time. For a reference this is on my 165 but we ride a lot of these types of trails mixed in with more open faster almost quad width stuff covered in rocks both embedded and loose mixed in. So you get an idea of what I am shooting for. The vid is kinda crappy and you cants wee all the rocks, roots, little sink holes and general trail trash that knocks you off course. Need to get Jake to post up a good rocky vid from his gopro-3.
I gotta come up there this summer and ride with you guys. It's a different world up there! What's your summer time weather like?
Thanks for sharing. I have 45 shivers on my gasgas and need to reconfigure my shin stacks. I have been in there a few times now. Have you done anymore adjustments since your last stack build. Tempted to try the stack you used on mine.
