For my experience the 3 min warm up only served to get past the particularly nasty running just after initial startup. I played with this some and my primary issue was if it died just after startup, say running for 30 sec or so, it was a real beast to restart. So letting it warm up past that point at least allowed it to restart reasonably well and it was slightly more predictable in it's stumbles/fumbles so I could throttle through them ..... for the most part. You will recall my statement that it took me a while to "unlearn" my riding technique for the bike and to trust it. I really am not sure about the issue of the bike continuing to run funky throughout the day, or at least more funky. Mine was pretty much always the same in that regard, or let's say the funk remained unchanged. You are running fuel that is far better than what I get in California, I should be so lucky to have 100 octane Euro grade fuel. The only way to for me to get that is to buy race gas, I'm jealous there....... dang CA commie politicians, grrrr. Haha, you have a point about our bikes should run better after putting in $$$ and effort. Though if you read carefully between the lines some have had issues that continued, but reduced. Charlie still had a few issues with the AF-Xied, others have reported not perfect running with various spoofers over time as the ECU apparently can learn it's way around some of them. I will be honest in that while my bike runs awesome once it's started I'm still chasing an inconsistent cold start situation. It can get it to COLD start pretty well, but in that same period just after it's started to when it's reasonably warm, it can be a beast to restart. Hot start, zero problems. This is a work on progress for me in that regard. My next step is to check the valve clearances just to be certain I don't have a tight valve. I doubt it, but maybe....., I'll have to prove it myself and eliminate the possibility. I tried changing to the Iridium plugs, it didn't change the starting one bit. But I might see about altering the gap a bit to see if that changes anything. What we all face is not being able to unlock the ECU and reflash it to run properly from the base. My Moto Guzzi Stelvio had a common issue in that it would die at the first intersection after the 1st startup like clockwork, every friggen day. Their cold start mapping was wrong. I had the ECU reflashed and it fixed that BS permanently. It's what the Yamaha Super Tenere guys go through to get that bike to run properly and without restrictions in several gears. My Ducati had similar issues, I have a remapped ECU and it runs flawless now. It's just common. So far my best experiences have come from fully remapped/reflashed ECUs, next after that add-on fuel management systems. If we could unlock the MM ECU on this bike I'm sure some people could make it run RIGHT. We are all working to find ways to improve it based on what we have available. Very few, maybe a couple, have been satisfied with how the bike ran stock, I sure wasn't, only I accepted it going into the deal, as I had on many other bikes. Comparing it to other bikes is a waste of your effort. They are simply other bikes. I've ridden so many bikes now that I fully understand they don't all run the same out of the gate, even from the same manufacturer. It often has to do with what it takes to get around the stupid regs and not each bike has the same combustion characteristics even though they "appear" to be comparable engines. For example, the Suzuki Vstrom 1000 ran like crap stock, yet their later Vstrom 650 ran great stock. What they did was improve on the combustion chamber etc. so it burned better, later adding twin plugs etc. As mentioned, KTM guys have been struggling with several of their bikes, so they finally got it pretty good with the very latest offerings, but it took them a long time, around 8 years or so. Seriously, peruse the 990 Adventure threads on ADVrider under Orangecrush, you'll read endless tails of horrific FI mapping problems. The 690 went through similar issues for a long time, just within the past year or so has KTM ironed out these issues. The 390 is a brand new, clean slate, engine so they could apply all the knowledge gained so far to it. They only introduced FI on the EXC line in the couple years, up to that point they were all carb'd. I think it's best to see if you can get your's to run well by whatever means seem to make sense for you. If you can't make it run satisfactorily then maybe you will have to move onto another bike, there aren't too many options. Something that might make sense would be to have the dealer or ??? at least test out any sensors, and possibly the throttle position sensor in particular, to see if they are functioning correctly. I've read through some of the TE 449/501 threads on CH as a buddy of mine has a TE449 that runs like absolute crap (WORSE than my TR) and I'm trying to help him out. One thing those guys have found is to adjust the throttle position sensor from it's stock position to advance it some which fools the ECU into thinking the throttle is open more than it really is basically adding fuel. They have had some positive results from this on those bikes, but I don't know how it might translate for the TR, plus I know it's a royal PITA to just see the TPS, much less adjust it. We're here to try and help you as much as we can. But I don't think any of us can answer the question why we have had to improve on how it runs, it just is, and there's not much changing that. Husky isn't going to do anything with that bike from now on, it's out of their hands after BMW sold them to KTM.
Dear Mark First of all HAPPY NEW YEAR ! I am the first Terra 650 owner in the Philippines, purchased my Husky Dec 2013 and have now 8000 km on the bike. I was in very remote places (jungle) with my Terra fell down a couple of times, even in a large river, the bike never let me down. Maybe I can give you some tips regarding the TR650. First of all its a fantastic bike (had all kind of bikes from Vespa till Fireblade incl. Harleys under my ass for the past 35 years), it would be a shame to consider Kawa 650 Versys vs. your Husky. As we all know, the bike has some ignition/mapping problems: solution --> one of the many spoofer/booster plugs as our dealer in Manila is not willing to support us with the necessary updated software for the ECU. I purchased the cheapest ($40) I could find on the net, its from Belgium and needs no temp. sensor replacement, its just a plug and works great, still here and there a stalling but very rarely, btw. the engine gets better and better with the kms. You really do not need Power Commander and such things, forget about that! Also No need for airbox mods etc. As a professional mechanic I can tell you, the more you move away from the original settings of that fine piece of technology, the more troubles you go into... Regarding the gasoline, I tried them all, best for me here in the Philippines is 95 octane. In remote places I had no choice than to run 91 which was terrible for that sophisticated engine, you easily can hear the different sound (knocking), I felt very sorry for my bike. Regarding overheating, just do the Canisterectomy as described in this Forum, its all you need, but its a must. The bike has 2 additional problems: 1. The chain, mine literally exploded just recently by driving over a Flyover in Manila at 7500 km, go for an aftermarket asap. I use a red GXW 520 chain from RK (Japan). DID or AFAM will do a good job as well. 2. Gear-shifting from 1. to 2nd gear is just terrible and gives frequently miss-shifting. Its no clutch problem, neither a chain tension problem as mentioned in this forum, its just an old fashion and terrible piece of German gear engineering, we have to live with. I found out best is to shift under power/load, means do not release the throttle for shifting and you will have the best results and almost no more problems.) Last but not least: As I'm quite heavy 110kg (240lb) and I like a very responsive bike, I changed the transmission by putting 15/49 sprockets, means 1 tooth less in front (engine side) 2 additional teeth at the rear wheel. That works excellent for me, although the revs increase by around 700 at 100km/h in 5.gear , compared to before. I don't care much, as I like to get out my bike all I can, always. in other words I'm not babying my Terra. Did full rpm for an hour just recently, means I had 7000-7500rpm allmost constantly, speed 165-175km/h, seems the Husky loved that ride more than I did. Hope my hints will help you to sort out some probs and get back a feel good for your Husky. Btw, i'm in middle of planning my next big Island trip, 1-2 months travel all around the Phil. Had a similar trip with a Chinese 250 Enduro 2013 for 3 and half months in the rainy season. I had to use the creepy phil. ferries 14x to cross all the islands, that was the biggest danger of the whole journey. Wish you all the best Paolo Ganci
Hi Paulo, Many thanks, all the best for you in 2015 too. Yes I have had many bikes in my earlier days and used to Motocross a lot. I agree it is a great bike, my consideration of a K 650 Versys was not in preference to the Strada, but as a second maybe more rideable in city traffic, bike but with the ability to cope with the crap roads too. I am not surprised at the Manila dealer being unsupportive, typical Philippines and also SE Asia issues, they all seem to just want to sell and run. Fortunately I have pretty good mechanical and electrical knowledge so barring a total disaster I hope to be able to go it alone anyway. I haven't made any ignition/ecu mods other than fitting an Oxygen Sensor Spacer and that has made a huge difference. My stalls and stops are now occasional when previously they were almost continuous. I agree with you on the Airbox Mods, a complete waste of time and IMHO this has been seriously overhyped in this forum and on Adv Rider too. Guys may have had issues, but having run Dirt bikes for years, I am pretty sure the problem is nowhere near it is as destructive what it has been made out to be. At first I was a little concerned and opened up the Air Filter for inspection, yes the fitting is ridiculously difficult, but in my case it works well. I just checked a second time, at 3000 kms and even though it has been very dirty and dusty on and off road, there is absolutely no sign of anything getting past my filter and into the box - I even took a photo to prove how clean it was on the other side of the standard filter. My only plan is to get a replacement filter as soon as I can, and possibly a washable one. I run the best Gasoline I can get, and having experimented with them all, I find Petron Blaze 100 Ron to be a really good one. Other than that If i cannot get 100, I use Shell 97 Racing or Petron XCS. I worked in the downstream Petroleum Industry for 30+ years and I know a lot of the brands come out of the same refinery/storage tank. For example, here in Cebu City I have sat and watched trucks of many brands and some with no logo at all come out of the same tank farm loaded for the various Gas Stations. However, I tried one tank of SeaOil 95 and never ever will again, the bike sounded like nuts and bolts in a tin can there was so much knocking and clattering in the top end under acceleration. So for me it is Petron 100 whenever possible from now on, plus I think if we stick to the same fuel then we remove one of the variables in our search for a decent running dog. Although I have not yet experienced any real overheating issues, even in the City traffic with the Air temp sensor reading 44C, I am planning the Cannisterecomy as soon as I can, and I will obtain and fit the extra fan that DanK did so well on his Terra. The only thing I plan to do differently and I cannot see why other have not (maybe they have) is regarding the Purge Valve. After all the result we seek is greater airflow through the radiator by removing the cannister restriction, nothing else. So I ask, why bother with the removal of the Purge Valve and the plugging of the Vacuum Line? Why not just remove the Cannister and its relevant hoses, but leave the Purge Valve and hose attached to the Throttle Body and let it carry on thinking it is working. The Valve is tucked up out of the way and controlled by the ECU, removing it has no benefits as far as I can tell. Yes I agree, along with all the others here I am quite shocked to find the Original chain is such a POS. I will purchase a new one asap, and possibly change Sprockets/Gearing too as it is always best to get the complete set anyway - Where did you obtain yours?? I don't have too much problem with Gear Shifting and have had some good long rides (loaded and unloaded) with occasional bursts up to 160 KM/hr, but generally I do not see much need to take the bike over its max Torque figure and stick to using it between 2000 and 6000 rpm mostly. It rides well, goes well and gives me great fuel figures too. I would love to do a longer Phils Tour and may even go further than Cebu in the very near future, but as a Marine Risk Professional I really am no fan of the ferries. We were on one yesterday, a small pumpboat with a Pax Limit of 40, yet it carried 120+ people and 4 motorbikes (fortunately not mine), plus all other stores etc, all in rough weather and could only manage 5 knots instead of the normal 9. Scary stuff and to be avoided wherever possible. Cheers for the info and update. I am just awaiting news on a set of purpose made Crash Bars and a Radiator Guard from a guy in Manila, lets hope they are as good as they look on his bike. MH
I think if you can get the upper surface of the filter cartridge to seal reliably against the airbox you're good to go. I decided to go the POD Mod route only because I didn't see a good way to get it to seal other than using the 3D printed frame. I posted up my quicky fix, mostly just using some foam strip to push the filter element up snug against the top of the airbox surface. If you can open up the top of the airbox and check that you're not getting dirt leaking past the filter then you're golden. If you see dirt residue then it's time to improve things. I'd love to do more motorcycle touring in P.I. if I could secure a decent bike to ride when I'm there. I don't know if there are any shops that rent bigger bikes in Cebu or not. I've mostly borrowed smaller bikes from relatives when I've ridden there. I totally agree about the ferries there, some are OK, others not so much. And way too often they are overloaded, just like the Jeepneys. I watched one ferry come into port severely overloaded with large trucks. I was glad not to be on it. Fortunately the one we did take was much less loaded.
Thanks for the heads up about the rental bikes, that might work out well for the next trip there. That ferry was running from Danao port to Comotes Island. We spent a few days on Comotes island. We rented a small bike there (125) and rode around the island. I've only used the pump boats for short distance island hopping off the coast of Cebu. Other times I've used the Super Cat for longer runs.
The reposting the above thread made me want to reiterate that NOT doing the airbox mod can/will lead to engine failure. Both failed engines documented on this forum and on ADV were the result of dirt ingestion into the engine. You can fix it or you can watch your engine deteriorate. Your choice. To be so naive as to think that ALL bikes are engineered so that the airbox is a stellar piece of engineering is just plain stupid.
I am neither naive nor stupid, nor do I consider any part of my TR 650 to be stellar engineering, however having checked my Airbox twice in 3000+ very dusty KM I find that my Filter not only fits well, but it appears that it is doing its job properly. Therefore I consider that I am not watching my engine deteriorate by not doing the modification which is at the moment unnecessary. As for failed the engines due to dirt ingestion - I consider that it is one possible cause, and that's all. At present, in my case...Not doing the Airbox Mod will not lead to my engine failing. If I subsequently have issues and find anything passing my filter then I will most likely carry out some form of modification, but not necessarily the Pod Mod as described in these forums. IMHO it is an excessive step that I do not see the need to take. The filter frame mods are in my opinion the way to go, no need to cut half the bike apart either.
Back to my original post and ideas on making this dog run properly...... I am still sitting on the fence with regard to how to go about curing the running issues. There is still a lot of information being posted in these pages about Spoofers, Re-Maps, AFR Adjusters etc and I find all the different experiences very interesting. Originally I had the terrible Lean Stumble at around 1900-2300 rpm, it was unpredictable and often dangerous. For the purpose of the experiment I have stuck to the same fuel from the same Gas Station throughout - Petron Blaze Euro4 100 RON. So far I have fitted a Lambda Spacer, performed the De-Cat of the exhausts and the Cannisterectomy. I also perform the 3 minute warm up procedure whenever I can. I have never had the bike MOSS'd and I have also not followed or carried out the ECU Reset procedure for the last 2000 km. I have the following to offer: My cold lean stumble has not totally gone away but it occurs less frequently and I am able to drive around it much more than I first did. I observed this improvement immediately after fitting the Lambda Spacer. The bike runs much cooler and in the stage from warmed up to being hot it does not stumble or struggle to pull through the rev range, in fact it is quite nice to ride. Observed since Cannisterectomy and De-Cat. I ride between 2000 and 5500 rpm pretty much everywhere, I rarely have any need to go over 6000 rpm, even on open roads. Air temperatures and humidity are in the high ranges 30-40C and 70-80% but they are pretty constant. I do notice an improvement in the running of the bike when it is cooler at night - but this is pretty much the same for all bikes I ever had (Cooler Air density and improved combustion etc). When the bike gets up to its max temperature with fan cutting in and out, especially in traffic, the engine is at its worst. It stumbles and coughs, farts, splutters and even stops fairly often and in particular between 1900 and 2300 RPM - It is a dog to ride. Example - Low speed, in traffic, to stop it stumbling, I have to run higher revs in first gear or slip the clutch in second. Then worst of all as the traffic speeds up and I am changing from second to third at say 3000 rpm, the revs drop and it splutters or quite often stops - all whilst travelling at 30+ kmph and often at the most critical time. Reading in the Spoofer Threads this is described as the extreme lean condition between 1750 and 2300 rpm and as far as I am concerned I really need to fix only that. Interestingly inspection of my exhausts, internally during the de-cat reveals that they are as clean as a whistle. No Carbon deposits, grey or black whatsoever. After any ride (when cooled down) I can put my finger into the exhausts and it comes out totally clean, there are simply no deposits at all. So....where do I go from here ?? My next move is to try and source a MOSS or similar piece of kit to possibly update the ECU Map, if there is one available. I have a guy here who has tuned and remapped many BMWs but he is not keen to do mine due to the Immobiliser System, he says there is the possibility that it would render the Bike/ECU dead and he will not risk it. I have had contact with several other Husky Owners in Philippines, but none of them has made any modifications at all. All the BMW bike owners I have talked to get back-street re-maps and resets done using GPR and other similar equipment - they seem to be successful, but I am wary of this at present. The truth is that information is pretty thin on the ground - Lots of guys say they know how to do it, but in reality they don't even understand the Lambda Spacer theory and I am pretty sure they know less about the necessary changes to the ECU map too. Cheers, MH
I'll throw my cents and list what I've done to my Strada in order to reach my personal bike "Nirvana", or bikervana: EJK. Installing it fixed any weakness coming out of idle, and greatly improved the mid rpm performances as well. I reckon that any O2 sensor spoofer would get the same results. Unifilter sponge air filter. I use my bike 99% on tarmac, so most of my riding does not involve a lot of dust. The airbox is still clean, so I don't feel the need to perform the airbox mod for now, although I have the 3d printed filter dock ready to be installed. In any case the Unifilter filter, while a little noisier, has really helped the engine, especially in the mid/high rpms. Brisks AR10ZS spark plugs. This is by far the most surprising upgrade considering the expectations. The engines is much smoother and more responsive in the low rpms, and the overall feeling is the same one I get when driving a more powerful twin. The surprise comes from the fact that the OEM plugs are well considered as well. 15t front sprocket. This is IMHO a must, even thou you'll end up missing the sixth gear even more. I drive mostly in an urban environment, and the few occasions in which I ride in the highways, I tend not to go over 140 Km/h..too much wind! In any case, if you drive mainly in the city, the shorter 1st and, more importantly, 2nd gears really help with the overall drivability of the bike, despite the occasional, unintentional half-wheelies. Castrol chain vax. It may look like someone vomited on your chain, and I'm not sure if it helps with the overall performance, but I can assure you that it will prolong the life of your chain, and also reduce the noise by quite a bit. I had to use the Motul stuff for a while, mainly because that's what was placed at the factory and at the first service. But ever since I emptied the oil can I switched back to vax. On my commute to work I ride through a section with Jersey barriers on both sides, and I could really notice the difference of noise before and after I degreased the chain and applied the vax. So the bike is now not only a fun bike to ride, but quite a performer too. I was planning on getting the single GRP exhaust as well, but at this point I don't really feel the need to get it. Beside, the stock exhausts are IMHO quite nice on the eyes as well as on the ears, plus I don't want to transform my bike into a heads turner, like many KTM owners are seemingly eager to.
I have read most of this post and forgot a lot of what I read. My Terra runs fairly well but could be improved. It has had the MOS treatment which helped. Question, Out of all the discussions and different spoofers is there any consensus as to which one is working the best?
Most (not all) who have tried AIT spoofers will tell you they become negated at some point by the ECU. However, the Booster Plug seems to be the exception to this.
Thanks for the information it all sounds good and apparently has not involved too much messing with the stock bike either. I would thoroughly recommend the Exhaust De Cat and the Cannisterectomy as they also offer good improvement and no change of 'look' either. My riding has been in heavy city traffic this past week and having a cooler running bike has made a big difference. Cheers, MH
I agree Charlie. There is a 'Vote' running on the Spoofer Experience thread which shows info on adaptation experiences, but unfortunately it does not give enough details as to which spoofer was fitted. I would be interested to know why the Booster Plug seems to be different to any of the others.
I'm using the one designed for the BMW 650GS. AFAIK the one that was programmed for the TR650 is still having some issues, and that's probably why it's not officially marketed yet.
The poll on my spoofer thread shows more don't have issues with the ECU negating the spoofer than those who do. I also know that those having issues tend to post more about having issues and be more engaged in threads on the subject than those who don't have issues. This tends to sway the perceived ratio of issues, its the nature of the beast. I know you have had issues, some of the worse, but I would guess most (not all) don't have issues.
