Yep, the 250 4t guys I know either have 2 bikes or they ride 1/2 the time while they are trying to get their only bike put back together or worse yet trying to save the money to get parts paid for.
You need both. 2 strokes are better the slower you go and 4 strokes are better the faster you go. My 165 rules in the tight stuff where my 511 sucks. My 511 rules in the fast dez where my 165 is just OK. Lack of engine braking and stalling on a 2 stroke in the tight stuff is wonderful. They dont overheat and love a good technical thrashing. A 4 stroke will be spewing steam and you will be swearing at it in the technical stuff. In the open faster stuff the weight of the 4 stroke, smooth abundant power make them feel great. Where in that case you are wringing the 2 strokes neck as it dances all over. Generalizations for sure but to me thats the difference. That said I like them all. I've ridden my 511 in tight stuff and my 165 in the dez... cuz I can Enjoy that 4 stroke.
usually a 4 stroke piston will last as long as 4X 2 stroke pistons. My 511 has 8000 miles, stock piston. Quite common. My CR250 or 165 need pistons about every 1200-1500 miles.
There is always gonna some variance in all the numbers ... ESP if comparing DS miles to dirt only miles or pure street miles or ~pure racing... Myself, never bothered too much with the internals of my 2t bikes as compare to these 250cc 4t bikes that I am wearing out here due to the high number of hours of riding .... 400 hrs and one bike has a oil-filter full of metal shavings ... I'm on the 7yr old 250cc 2t bike today riding ... Just an accident I purchased it from BMP and certainly lucked out on this one. That 400 hr toasting is in contrast to my 08 TXC250 that went ~900 hrs before the big-end bearing went out ... Yet to actually open up the 010 TC250 that just had rings installed before all the metal appeared ... Another contrastingly different fact to the TC saga is the parts I'm guessing are bad are on the way here. Bikes are my daily life and not overly concerned on the 4t bikes going bad as the 250cc 2t bike should fill in all the gaps for them ..even at age 7.
Like Kelly sez. I've got one of each Italian and am really happy. The 449 will possibly see a little more competition this season, but next season it goes back to it's bread and butter duty. All around off road dirt bike with a plate.
Coming from the days of Honda 125 SL machines to where we are today, I'm certainly glad I purchased these 4 small 4t bikes I current own and will most likely wear out totally riding them ... 4t bikes do alot of good things for riders for sure ... But they are not the end of 2t bikes ... I've said it out here before that we are at the top-line of motorcycling bike engineering ...Maybe we can get 'actual' better bikes in the near future? We all have an opinion there. And we know what direction the price is heading also and a higher price means the world we live in is not in regression ... It's complex but nothing really new unless you were born this morning ...
youll be right OMG its still a 350 not a 250 so i doubt youll be wringing its neck all the time! id probably be looking at a top end around the 150 hour mark(so gives you 85 hour ride time-2 years?) with a couple of valve clearance checks inbetween time. piston/rings & possibly cam chain/valve seats etc which wont be that exy especially if you do it yourself. whack staino valves in when you do it if youre worried but i think these ktm motors are pretty good. usual story clean oil/fuel/air & dont rev its tits off all the time & im sure it will last years! youll give yaself an ulcer worrying about it. i like the idea of a 450/500 for longevity but the 350 will be more fun & thtas what its all about. hell i bought a 125. totally impractical but damn its fun!
Well got back yesterday riding the FE 350 for the first time and a couple of points: My bike fitness is crap, after not riding for 8mths, felt like a gumby. Very hard time adapting to 4 stroke compression thingo. Rear brakes too touchy. 4CS forks are pretty good but l know what people mean when it blows through the stroke feeling. Love the electric start. Definitely feel the top end heaviness but ever so slightly, the thing sure does handle very well indeed. Power is deceptive, you can't coast like on a 2T but she gets to a fair speed without feeling/hearing it. Have to admit 4t's are very forgiving but l still need to learn to ride this bike. On a brighter note, the Husaberg/Husqvarna FE350 sure does crash well as l know first hand after dodging a deer and then grabbing too much throttle, dodging some fallen logs only for my barkbuster to get hooked up, sending me to the ground with 2 fractured ribs, badly bruised kidney and abdomen...the bright side was l had to ride out for 1.5hrs so l got use to using 4t compression downhills as well as how well the Vortex ECU traction map works. Ohhh the pain of laughter.
Rough weekend mate! Yeah they do seem to crash well I've seen a few mates have some pretty epic get offs with bugger all damage
Cheers Shawry, the first day on it and l wanted to put a sign at the Mrytleford pub saying swap for a 2 stroke but l'll give the bike the benefit of the doubt - there just something that l natural do on a 2t that l don't need to do l a 4t. The only bummer is that l'm off the bike for at least 6 weeks now
I've found that if I want a 450 to react more like my 250 2 stroke I have to constantly use the clutch to tame engine braking. I actually like how a 4t will try to re-hook if the rear tire breaks loose where a 2t will tend to blow the rear tire off spinning... in loose fast corners the 4t is super fun, it kinda makes me feel like a flat tracker.
good stuff stated above, clutch really works both directions is a good way to think about it. as a slow to engage get traction/control on acceleration auto style clutch, when you slip it. And as a "slipper" clutch when you decel to keep the rear/chassis under control, its a constant control item with as much input as your throttle hand.
True! In the really nasty rocky downhill sections you can shut off the motor, leave it in gear, and use the clutch for a rear brake. That leaves both feet ready for dab duty.
Ok, it's been 3 odd years since l posted in this thread and l thought l'll give this an update!! Let preface this in saying that the move to the 4T brought about intrigue, trepidation and intimidated Intrigued in what a modern day chassis, suspension and 4T powerplant would be like compared to a big bore 2T born in the late 20th century. Trepidation in that l've never ridden a 4t for more than 10mins let alone own one!! Intimidated by the way l would need to, or at least think l need to, change my riding style after 25+ of 2T's and in my late 40's. So, in the past 3 years l made a concerted effort to gel with the FE350 even after having a moment of crisis in nearly gave it all away as me and the 350 had a difference of option, as evident in this post and another post of nearly quitting!! Anyway, what l found in owning one of this Husaberg/Husqvarna/KTM's 350 4T's are: The motor is some easy to work on!!! Granted there isn't much space but after doing a piston and ring, timing chain, tensioner, shims and valve stems; KTM sure put some thought is making the whole job quite easy and definitely able to do it at home with 'normal' tools. Maintenance: Yeah yeah, all the crap that a 4T is about the same maintenance as a 2T is just plain crap...every 10hrs l change the oil, clean the SS filters, dry them, fill the oil up, check the level, clean the airfilter and repeat again next week. Nothing compares to a linkage! Sure, a linkage system may weigh a bit more but the PDS is one hell of a stiff unit as the kick is quite harsh even after spending $$$ on valving and a progressive spring - it just does not give you that suppleness of a linkage system however, they are great for log crossings. KTM Brembo master cylinder is crap! Yep l said it, sure they have such braking power and feel but for whatever reason, leave the bike on stands for a few weeks and the lever is dead. Reverse bleed and the old zip tie the lever to bar after riding/storage is now the ritual in keeping this particular system pressured. Now, this surprised me as 23yo Brembo master cylinder on my 360 or the 18yo on the 250 have never, never ever lost pressure a day in it's life!! 350 motor is a screamer: Thinking that the 350cc motor would a great chugger, well was l incorrect!! Whilst the 350cc motor (even with a Vortex ecu) doesn't really make much snapping power unless you rev quite a fair bit. Down low it has a bit more than the 250 but nothing like the 450, mid to the open and the thing goes ballistic. Quite often l found that l really have to be revving to insure the bike keeps flowing in tight ST's a drop in revs and the thing will just drop anchor. Flameouts: Although the 350 doesn't possess the same compression braking as the 450's, this is one area that l could never get use - the flameouts. I had to change my style quite a fair bit from coasting into a corner and opening the throttle mid corner to a point and shoot style where l'm clutching, braking and blipping the throttle so l don't flameout sometimes it was quite frustrating it would flameout just as l approach logs in a matrix style...grrr. Inertia: I don't care if this is 2018, in tight single trail l feel the extra rotating mass of the valve train especially tight technical turns such as switch backs. It wasn't frustrating to the point of throwing it off a cliff but something that would catch me out ever now and then. So economical: Longest ride l did was 160kms on a one tank. In fact, where l use to bring a 20lt jerry, l would barely use a 10lt jerry that's how economical they are. Bloody hot! These things run hot and heaven forbid if you don't have a thermo fan. 5 mins into a gnarly single an that thermo is doing it's job. 4 Strokes are so forgiving! Yep, l have to admit that you can cruise up a gnarly hill or track just with the torque of the motor and linear feel. While you have to have a level of fitness, IMO, not at the level of riding a 2T which why they are forgiving - tired, just click up a gear or even stay in one gear and let the motor chug along. Over the past 3 years, me and 4T's have a love hate affair and l thought it may have been the 350 as during this time l rode FE450, FE501, 450XCW and KTM500 (17/18 model handle to great for a big bore!!) and l would say the XCW was a wonderful bike and close to the perfect bike power delivery wise except for the flameouts. However, during this time l also sampled the 15/16/17 TE300, 15/16/17 KTM300xc and EXC plus the 15/16 Beta 300RR and without a doubt, even my follow mates commented, l was so much faster, smoother and confident riding these bikes then l was on the 350. This really didn't amaze me for as soon as l jumped on any of these bikes, it just felt natural with the Beta being the most familiar. That familiarity of no engine breaking either down a hill or into a corner, that snapping power off the throttle, the nimbleness and the one that surprised me, finding that right mix of power and torque of riding the throttle just under band. It didn't matter what brand or year of bike these skills just came flooding back yet the Beta felt like my old huskys, not aggressive like the KTM/Husky which is like comparing the WR360 vs the KTM360. Ok enough bullshite, the 3 years on the 350 4T was fun and really enjoyed it to the point that l have kept her.......unfortunately, l'm picking up a 20hr old 2017 Beta 300RR
I'd forgotten about this thread so I'm glad you brought it back to life because it hits really close to home. I've commited to riding a yz450 for one full year. I completely went through a 2011 yz450 and added some things to make it as off road friendly as I can. I have 9 hours on the engine rebuild and I'm just starting to feel like it's my bike and not a bike swap on a trial ride that I can't wait to give back to the owner so I can get my 2 stroke back. I think in the end Ill be back on a 2 stroke but I'm sticking with the 450 hoping the new found skills will make me a better overall rider.
That is a pretty fair summation of what it took for me to get used to riding a 4T after basically riding 2T all my life. The XR200 I had as a kid was just easy to do everything with, and doesn't compare to a modern short stroke revver motor. Lately I tend to take both the 449 and 250 out for outings and races. I can say that the more I swap between them, the more I appreciate the differences in what they feel like and what they are good at. The TE 449 has a new nickname "Electric Couch". I've got the suspension dialed to be plush enough for everyday dual sport, but still able to ride in the aggressive zone without feeling like I'm going to override the thing. It's great for scouting and marking race course with the electric start or play riding with the kids. The WR 250 feels like a scalpel when I swing a leg over it in comparison. It's just got a more connected feel that I can take almost anywhere and race in our local 60-70 mile courses with much less fatigue. I guess 30+ pounds lighter has something to do with that. But in that regard, practicing slow technical on the 449 has really upped my game when it's time to pilot the WR. I can ride most if not tall the same type of terrain on both bikes, it just takes different technique to do it.
It is very much related to what you grew up with. My background has been 4 bangers and I feel the smokers require a lot more effort to ride well with their narrower power band. I ride in the high country here with miles and miles or steep tracks. The engine braking of a 4 is a blessing coming down those steep hills (especially in winter on the steep wet clay bits ) and the torque keeps me in control going up. I do appreciate the lighter feel a smoker gives, especially in the really tight stuff, however I feel the 4 banger is the more forgiving and versatile. Note the weight differences are now negligable. Indeed the 2018 Sherco 300 four is 2 kgs. lighter than the 300 smoker-go figure.
Cheers guys!!! Do think riding a 4T only the last 3 years have made me appreciate the skills l learnt on a 2T but added new ones like Huskynoobee added on - l reckon l used the clutch more on the 4T than my previous 2T and it was mostly in slow technical tracks where l really had to make a concerted effort in catch the clutch just before stalling or when the weight catches you out. I probably developed a better throttle control as the 350 would put the power down better than a 2T and keep going, bit like a V8 hit and torque rather than the turbo feel of the 2T... l can whiskey throttle a 2T and get away with it but on this 350...well broken ribs and shoulder highlighted that not to mention the numerous off's l had when l took to the desert and whoops after whoops (fun but bloody hard)!! Ghte...yep you're right, l took the 350 from Walhalla to Dargo and loved it - probably one of the times that l felt sad for my 2T brothers. l'm happy that l'm keeping the 4 banger as l now know what types of ride l will take her on and the rides for the Beta.... it's a different fun that l'll continue to explore!!! LD...probably the biggest demon l faced when l chose to ride 4T only was cursing and hating the thing!! I wanted it to perform like a 2T but it takes 4 revolutions rather than 2, it does have more centrifugal force than a 2T, it does flameout and so on and so. To the point that l was stuck at a bottom of a super steep gully, mates egging me on and then asking if l wanted to go back and just said f' it, HTFU and said to myself 'Com'on Jay...you know how to ride'....from then on l accepted the bike rather than trying to find faults which after the first year, no more injuries or busted levers even snapped a barkbuster and so on. Now, we'll see what these modern 2t's are like lol!! PS. Love that button, oh baby l can tell you in 3 years that l have not kicked start a bike for anyone on the trail and when l fired up the 360 once and a while, damn my right leg is weak these days
Just an update....the 2T in tight stuff is sooooooo much more pleasurable than the 4T it's just cheating!!! No more problems with front end tucks or even flameouts (what are they) and lifting over logs is just a breeze both technique and skull dragging. The only thing that l've had and it's not so much of problem just a change in style, are steep technical hills...l've gotten so use to the forgiveness of a 4T that l'm guilty of sticking in a gear up these climbs and quickly finding the low end grunt of the Beta 2T is no where near those of the 350 4T - it's called being lazy really. Anyway, the Fiat (as the Beta/Italian wiring is crappy) and me are bonding but the old Husaberg doesn't want to let go...guess GHTE is right, one bike for goat tracks and the other for High Country!! Enjoy the Winter riding for us Aussies and the Summer riding for you yanks and canucks!!
