TE511 Front-end washout

I know this is an old post, but that front end washout problem on my 2011 te449 has seen me in hospital twice for reconstructive surgery on my hand and knee. I'm in Australia and had my bike set up with the correct springs for my weight by Shock Treatment, 6.7 eibach rear and .54 racetech in the forks. I've had the bike for 12 months and have spent more time in hospital than riding it. Great bike, just doesn't handle. Unpredictable, hates ruts, hates sand, washes out. I'm at a loss and thinking of selling it.

Can't agree with that.
My bike used to wash out on the front... felt front heavy.
Chads Offroad set up in Geelong sorted that out. Also did a few friends bikes as well. I don't know which Springs. But he re- valved it too. I am happy with it. So are 3 more 449 and 511 Guys.

Itn is a great bike and handles even in Singles damn good since the Set up.

CHADS OFF ROAD IS GEELONG WILL FIX IT.

ps. how much riding you do ?

Have you checked our Facebook Page " Husqvarna TE TXC TC 449 511 owners"

I ride most weekends, just trail riding, but I ride a lot. Blessed with kms of trails at my back door. I will check out the Facebook page, thanks.

I decrease the front rebound, seems to help with wash outs/deflection

My bike was delivered with the top two machine marks on the fork tubes showing through the clamps.
It turns quite well in tight going, is a little more reluctant on faster downhill open tracks but responds well to dragging the rear brake into corners 2 stroke style
I also removed the plastic cable holders on the frame near the forks & wound in the steering stops some more.
Great in tight bush tracks now and it LOVES sand pinned wide open

After the bike-set is complete, including tire pressure, next is rider technique... I'm riding the 250cc bikes and they like the rider weight to be in the front part of the bike ... Next stay sitting somewhat up straight and push the bike downward into the corner... True counter-steering is what I attempt here also. The 250s are like on rails but if I get too sloppy with technique, I'm gonna feel some slippage and maybe a crash ...

This came from Gary Semics ... Dragging the rear brake slightly will help stop front-wheel washouts ... The 2 wheels are hooked together so the rear is pulling the front back-inward when the rear brake is applied (I think this is how he explained it) ..

Hospital time is not acceptable (for me) and Good luck with the riding ....

A lot has changed on my 511 since I originally created this thread and that is beyond understatement. The main cause of washout on the 449 is due to chassis geometry. Originally the GS450X had much less rake angle which provided the correct stability in loose terrain. Husqvarna increased this rake angle in order to allow the 449 to make tighter turns and corner better as an enduro based motorcycle. This is difficult to undo without major fabrication, but there are a few things I will list that you can do to help overcome the instability.




Proper suspension is key as well as your Sag. Push your forks all the way down in your triple clamps so that they are flush with the lower edge of the top caps. Rear sag can be adjusted between 105-120mm. Have your rear shock lowered 4mm. Increase the compression of your forks, this will help keep them from diving.

Steering stabilizer, Kelly’s or Scotts/Ohlin’s is the best in my opinion. This option should not be used before suspension setup.

Add a GT 216 AA front tire. Kid you not, this one add-on will make a night and day difference. I have further widened my 216 by adding a 1.85 front rim.

The rear tire is very important in loose terrain. Many people think desert - desert hard compound tire. This is not correct for the 449. You will need an open treaded tire, intermediate to soft, IT type such as a Dunlop MX 52 or 32. This will help to loft the front tire up on top of the loose material.

Add one link to your oem rear chain. This will lengthen your wheel base by about 22mm and add stability.

Sprocket ratio change, I use 14/52 tooth sprockets which give me a little better torque through my gears. Just adding the 14CS helps and is inexpensive to try.

Move back a little from your center stance when riding. Remember that the 449 has CTS and when you accelerate hard, the rear end lifts, it does not squat like a normal motorcycle. When the rear end lifts, it increases your rake angle causing instability. Therefore do not gas it hard when you begin to feel the instability, you will make things worse.

The down side to these modifications is it will be harder to turn. Comparing it to hospital time, I’d say turn is the least of your worries. It may not be necessary to do all these modifications, Sag and Tires may be all that is needed.


And for the extreme (don't recommend this)...

Changing the rake angle -1° was no easy task, even for us at ZipTy. After over +40 hours of pain staking milling, fabrication and installation as well as help from Ty Davis, Andy Jefferson, Husqvarna, BRP, GPR and TerryCable, I was able to do just that.





You can see Ty and Dan in the background haha. We are in the race shop here.



So now you're thinking why on God's green earth would you do this? Sometimes innovation requires sacrifice (sometimes insanity). Though my average speed across the desert is only 53mph, I have been over a hundred. At those kinds of speeds, stability is everything. - T

Glad your bike handles better.

To me there is a difference between "pushing" and "washing out." Pushing is when the bike drifts to the outside of the turn. Feels like the front is sliding. Washing out is when the front end slips out late in a hard turn diving you into a low side fall. Pushing front is high and light. Wahshing out over driving. Front is low and heavy. Maybe you guys have better names for these phenomena than I do.

When I was using the lowering rear link, the front was high compared to the back even with the forks raised in the tipple clamps. Choppered out! It pushed in all the turns. But it was also unstable in the sand. Felt like with the front end so light, it could not engage and surfed all over the place. After Ty did my suspension, lowered and leveled the bike with revalved forks, it turned way better AND was more stable in the sand.

I think sand needs a balanced suspension. Too light or too heavy on the front can both cause problems. The balance changes with a riders hight and weight and riding position.

And hey Tinkin! That's my bike sitting next to yours.

It's about as fast as mine currently is... A friend of mine came into the race room yesterday and asked if I did any riding lately. I look down at my bike a "well..." look on my face. She'll be ready for the coming riding season.

Tinken, I can see all that work you've done would help your high speed stability for sure.
I think Luke's question was for better turn-in rather than a stability issue.
Most of what you've described there would counter good turn in, as you mentioned.

Just saying raising the front(pushing fork down) reducing rake angle, lengthening wheel base, lowering the rear all help stability, straight line handling at speed, but all reduce turn-in make it want to push ahead more than turn.

Correct valving, spring choice & tyre choice will help, yes.

Luke, call Chad and you will be stoked after his Set up. we could go for a ride and you have a go on my bike !!!

That is correct, but washing out is different. During a push, you can force your body weight forward to weight the front end, stabbing the front end down. But during a washout, doing so will make it worse and often times land you either on your side or over the bars. There are a lot of factors involved, such as rider size and weight. I am 6'6" and I tend to torque the suspension differently compared to shorter riders.

We actually redesigned the suspension on this bike. The rear linkage on the 2012-14 449/511a was built using our prototypes which we submitted to Husqvarna. We also shortened the rear shock which was added to the 2012 model line. The 2011 had really harsh stability issues, but there was only so much we could change before it started to hurt the enduro performance. In order to rake the bike back further, we moved the frame 9mm in the rear, collapsing the frame and changing it's geometry and pivoting angle.

Ouch!

Set up for me 5'11 90kg my '11 goes really well in sand. Taken it to the beach quite a bit and to Fraser Island (Largest sand island in the world).
Soooooo much fun whistling down tracks in 6th gear.
It take some throttle commitment to pull a turn sometime & you learn quickly not to touch the brakes much.
What a rush

Some interesting points made here. I think I'm going to have a go at getting the shock lowered as has been suggested. Then maybe save some coin to get back to another suspension tuner. I guess I'm just frustrated that getting the springs sorted and playing with all the clickers hasn't helped. Also a bit down after having 2 decent crashes resulting in injury and not feeling any love for the bike at the moment!