The Italian Red Head that's going to lose it's head thread.

[Quirky]

It would appear that my head gasket is stuffed.
There is exhaust gases sneaking into the cooling system.


I have been warned that the air box modification with a pod mod has probably contributed or caused the problem. It's early days for this, next step is to pull it down and have a good look at the problem.

Apparently the modified air box and filter could have increased the airflow to the engine. This has caused a lean running engine. This has caused my pre detonation issue which has damaged the gasket.

I have a long story on this to tell and I'll add later but not on this mini phone screen.

Be careful pod modders. At the moment for me a dusted seized engine would be less troublesome. I can only hope that they find something obvious that has let the engine down.

Cheers,

Q

 

[V8Astro]

I don't know if this is dumb....but I'm going to copy and paste my remarks from another thread....

Did the Pod Mod cause the problem? Absolutely not. Did it contribute? Maybe. I would DARE a Husqvarna Rep to look me in the eye and tell me they don't know that these bikes run dangerously lean. These bikes run so lean that long-term engine issues are inevitable. I'm not sure what grade fuel they have in your corner of the world, but I alway use premium in my bikes (93 octane R+M/2). I would imagine less grades would run like hammered rat $hit. I don't mean to get so worked up in your thread, but this is akin to saying "don't flick lit cigarettes into a house that's already on fire".

I was telling my brother yesterday that when I took my O2 sensor out for the EJK install the anti-seize on the threads was ASH. Totally scorched. I've always used anti-seize on spark plugs/glowplugs/exhaust bolts/turbo wastegate hinges and I've NEVER seen it burn up like this. This bike must have some incredibly high EGT's.

IMO Pod Mod is the way to go. I wonder if leaving the OE air filter in place would help any....

 

[Quirky]

I run the best available, 98 octane rated fuel here in oz. My preference is sticking with caltex or bp.
95 has been used at worst and not often as 32litres of fuel on board usually gets me to the next servo and have avoided ethanol blends all together.

Bike has pinged from new. Had the dealer look at it at around 5000km. They moss tooled it and informed me they had overlooked resetting the TPS which was meant to be done as part of the derestricting process. The ride home after this was great the power delivery and response was fantastic. It reduced the rattle but it was still there.

 

[mag00]

Well, you are documented as pinging, pretty hard to blame that on something that came later.

Sorry to hear that your dealer is trying to screw you.

 

[Quirky]

Not the most ideally helpful from the dealer at this point. But I have a fair respect and confidence in this dealer. I choose to travel for 4 hours instead of 11/2 or 2 hours to my nearest dealers. They have also sold me 3 new bikes in 3 years and don't believe they are trying to screw me despite a few mishaps.

 

[drzcharlie]

Increased air flow causing pre-detonation. Hmmmmm ok, but my bike has pinged from day one no matter what fuel was used. Installing the AF-XIED stopped pre-detonation obviously because I am now running a richer AF mixture. I am running 6% richer at the moment which should be about right.

Interesting that the dealer would pick that out of the myriad of things it could be. Did he see the pod mod? Did he state your woes were specifically because of it or did he speculate that it could be because of it?

 

[AUS_TR650]

Apparently the modified air box and filter could have increased the airflow to the engine. This has caused a lean running engine. This has caused my pre detonation issue which has damaged the gasket.

Has the Australian distributor for these legacy bikes, Paul Feeney Group initiated a campaign to address the issue of dust ingress into the airbox? Not to my knowledge. You and other TR650 owners were being proactive to prolong engine life when off-roading on an off-road bike.

Bike has pinged from new. Had the dealer look at it at around 5000km. They moss tooled it and informed me they had overlooked resetting the TPS which was meant to be done as part of the derestricting process.

I reckon your dealer is liable for a large portion of the repair bill if PFG aren't going to cover this under warranty as the bike would have been lean at max power. Dealers were taught this when they had their factory training early 2013 that this had to be performed when derestricting a '650.

Good luck and keep punching Q.

 

[mag00]

Quirky, you took the bike in for pinging in the beginning before you did any mods?

 

[Quirky]

I reckon your dealer is liable for a large portion of the repair bill if PFG aren't going to cover this under warranty as the bike would have been lean at max power. Dealers were taught this when they had their factory training early 2013 that this had to be performed when derestricting a '650.

Good luck and keep punching Q.

I spoke with PFG last night because the TPS range adjustment had me thinking that the bike would have been running extremely lean at max power.
They didn't believe this was the case. I think it may be BS at the moment.
I think guy's name was Nick from PFG, he was polite, helpful and hasn't ruled out any options yet. I phoned them especially in regards to the lack of resetting the parameters by the dealer. Sounded like he already had this discussion with the dealers tech. The gist of the information I got from the discussion was that a unrestricted terra's TPS doesn't read at 100% throttle position anyway and 83% was more like the number. A resrticted Terra's range is capped at 70%. This small difference would be basically tuned up automatically by the ecu because of the lambda sensor data.


I really don't know how all the interfacing of ecu's, tps, lambda and temp all work, you may even have a source to clarify my thinking further? Not sure they fully understand either. I am struggling to understand how the 13% TPS difference didn't possibly play a part in this. I thought that at any TPS setting between say approximately 20% and 60% and depending on rpm's would be closed loop. (Adapting fuel tables from the lambda sensor very active, general cruise type riding)
So I thought that say a 70% and greater TPS reading would certainly mean the system would be in open loop. So now in my dumb head that means fully open butterfly valve in throttle body is possible on my unrestricted terra but the TPS has a maximum input to the ecu of 70% instead of 83% and because it would be in open loop, there would be no lambda sensor inputs to the ECU at this RPM range or TPS %. The other fact from this state of affairs is the obvious power difference that I experianced after they actually reset the TPS, it was unbelievable. So much so I acually rang the dealer when I got home just to let them know of the huge benefits.



Cheers,

Q

 

[Quirky]

Quirky, you took the bike in for pinging in the beginning before you did any mods?

Pod mod and AF-Xied were done just prior to raising pinging issue. The AF-Xied helped reduce the pinging a small amount and was using setting #7.

The dealer did the first service prior to 1000km, I didn't ride it hard enough the pinging was subtle when noticed. I initially thought at worst it was the radiator gaurd. Between 5-6000km returned to them for a coolant pump shaft seal as mine was weeping the tiniest amounts of engine oil (3 drops per thousand kilometres. This seal actually took up on this very 450km trip. I spoke about the rattle and the tech jumped straight for the I will check if the TPS was reset. It hadn't been done and must have been overlooked on the day you picked it up. They obviously missed it for the first service also, which annoys me a fair bit especially after asking them to check that I had the latest software updates on the day.

The TPS reset reduced the rattle and the engine felt stronger than ever. I was fairly happy with it, thinking still the noise was maybe loose bolt or something or even wondering if it was the bashplate causing the racket.

Cheers,

Q

 

[glitch_oz]

It would appear that my head gasket is stuffed.
There is exhaust gases sneaking into the cooling system.

From memory I've seen various posts re: stuffed head gaskets here (and on ADV) previously.
No idea if those were on pod-modded bikes only, but I highly doubt that as they seemed to be all over the place/ globe.
This might...MIGHT...just be the price of extracting those extra 10hp from that BMW donk via higher compression, sharper timing and a hairline-lean
electronics set up to make the EPA/ EU + US emission standards.? Dunno...

Putting this down to sucking clean air is plain BS.
After all, the intake surface/opening hasn't changed at all nor has the intake design changed to a ram-air/ turbo/compressor setup.

 

[Quirky]

Increased air flow causing pre-detonation. Hmmmmm ok, but my bike has pinged from day one no matter what fuel was used. Installing the AF-XIED stopped pre-detonation obviously because I am now running a richer AF mixture. I am running 6% richer at the moment which should be about right.

Interesting that the dealer would pick that out of the myriad of things it could be. Did he see the pod mod? Did he state your woes were specifically because of it or did he speculate that it could be because of it?

My pinging engine has been very specific and strange. My 1200 can ping here and there, not often and the AF-Xied has also really cleaned this crap up completely. The staintune headers now removed was also a contributer.

The tr650 rattle happens between 4200rpm and 4700rpm at say between wide open throttle and 90% in 4th and 5th gears up hill. Under 4000rpm pinging and rattles are impossible to create and the same goes for greater than 4800rpm, it just doesn't happen anywhere else in the rev range. This had me suspecting some sort of frequency causing another rattle. From the moment of pod modding I have run the AF-Xied on setting #7. It's really only been the last 2000km i've experimented going back to #3 because of my heavy fuel consumption.

On the first day that I got showered in coolant I was actually trying to find out if the bike pinged less on #8 than stock via removing the AF-Xied loop and reconnecting (just in case the AF-Xied had a biased result on setting #1). I was repeatably rowing from 3000rpms to 7000rpms up and down listening and trying to find a benefit between the two. I couldn't tell the bloody difference in the pinging but noticed the performance change. F!@# it I'll now leave it midway at #4 then give it a few more 3-7000rpm cycles in 4th gear on flat road is when I got showered. It has never overheated it sprayed out with temp gauge reading normal which only crept up as I rolled to a stop then to hear the fan cut in and cool it back down in 20seconds flat.

 

[Quirky]

From memory I've seen various posts re: stuffed head gaskets here (and on ADV) previously.
No idea if those were on pod-modded bikes only, but I highly doubt that as they seemed to be all over the place/ globe.
This might...MIGHT...just be the price of extracting those extra 10hp from that BMW donk via higher compression, sharper timing and a hairline-lean
electronics set up to make the EPA/ EU + US emission standards.? Dunno...

Putting this down to sucking clean air is plain BS.
After all, the intake surface/opening hasn't changed at all nor has the intake design changed to a ram-air/ turbo/compressor setup.

Some of my queries were-
They came up with my Pod mod having a ram air effect. Said that the oem airbox was a still air design.
I am like WTF? a forward facing air intake is a ram air intake is it not? Sure my airfilter has more surface area and is different, that was only needed to be done because of the initial manufacturers design was a F!@# up. Can you tell me how I've added to this ram effect with a Pod mod via an assless airbox? Surely no pressure or ram effect can be contained in this case?
If the ECU can adapt out the misfitting 70% vs 83% TPS range. Can it not adapt enough for a small airflow variance? example choked air filter vs new and clean


I just don't have a leg to stand on in this case, unless when stripped something is obviously very wrong.
Not trying to bash PFG or the dealer here, I just want it sorted out, I am hopeful that they will help solve the issues. Don't like my chances at this early stage but I can only hope it goes well. It's crazy but apparently a dusted siezed engine would be an easier beast to deal with.

Cheers,

Q

 

[DeLewis]

Hey Quirky, I don't have answers but I my Strada exhibits very similar behaviour. My bike has only 1200km and has yet to have its first service. It's been podded and has an Accelerator Module installed. I have entirely removed the stock air filter door. To date, I have only taken it for one longish ride with a few sections of 100+km speeds. It was under heavy acceleration in the mid to upper rev range and at about 100km/hr that there was a sharp metallic clattering/rattling from the engine. I couldn't work out what the heck it was and wondered about loose bolts rattling at particular resonant frequencies, blah, blah, blah. But I was unable to reproduce the effect at lower speeds. I haven't had the time to investigate any further but the ram air effect has me thinking. The obvious thing for me to try would be to temporarily remove the pod mod, replace the OEM filter and try to replicate the conditions that cause the noise. I am about to go away for a couple of weeks but will attempt to test the "ram air" hypothesis on my return. Hopefully this will help with future "discussions" with PFG/dealers.

 

[Quirky]

Hi DeLewis. Thanks for the input. Can't wait to find out if your bikes pinging change. I hope your radiator cap doesn't smell like burnt gas mate.

Ok my dealer technician got the whole story where I was at with it and how only hard pulsing revs make it play up. Coolant pushed out of balance tank, wasn't getting hot, thermo fan works normally, entire radiator feels warm and it absolutely stinks of burnt gas, the coolant has lots of scale type floaties in it and the cap had a waxy sludge build up. When trying to top up and remove air locks from the radiator I notice many bubbles that don't seem reduce until the engine warms up enough to then simply spew or burp up a fair amount of coolant like it's boiling and well before any real temp comes into play. (didn't burn me to touch it) Have you got a sniffer or tester for the coolant I asked hthe tech? The answer was no. The radiator place might have one was the next answer but that option could be next week or something.

He rings PFG tech department, instructed that the oem coolant is garbage and is some sort of water soluble powder crap product that can or does stink bad. He got told to change out the coolant and this should fix it and help with the pinging due to having a more efficient cooling system.
This got done. His test ride confirmed the pinging without any coolant blow ups, I voiced my doubts so he also decides to reset and up date with moss tool and was surprised to find a newer version available to be installed. At the same time because of my voiced doubts during software updating they leak down tested the combustion chamber 16psi pressure held and seemed normal, can't be a head gasket he tells me. He had a short ride to re-check.
My test ride came next, the temp gauge run easily 1 or 2 bars cooler, the pinging was much much worse, I made it work hard from 3000rpm accelerate hard then slow, accelerate hard then slow, in 3rd and 4th gears over and over. Temp gauge stayed calm but sure enough within 10km I received another visor covering of their best quality coolant. I don't believe that normal cruising would ever make it react with gases probably bleeding off in time to not cause a problem and that it must be a small leak at high pressures only.
I then just cruised normally on a mission to find the radiator repair shop for a second opinion before going back to the dealership. What a great guy, he dropped everything to help me out, his son races motoX all over the world and he (Phil) didn't even expect payment (i give him $50) top bloke. First off he said "mate I can smell it from here" cap off "fark smell that no doubt" amazed the tech guy at the dealership hasn't already confirmed this he pulls out a gas sniffer and said that "look this gadget is getting a bit old and not real sure about it because it sometimes doesn't pick up weak leaks and this is on a little bike so I don't expect it to find gas emissions" well it went off and confirmed it again. So lets try to pressure test the radiator. After trying to get a couple of ideas to clamp on without removing panels we weren't successful. So that turned into main radiator cap on plastic tank cap off and instructed to repeatedly blip the throttle up and down hard and sure enough we both witnessed it making grey coloured bubbles that actually pulsed out on each rev up.
Phil told me that the bike workshop guys knew him well, tell them to call me, happy to discuss it.
The other instruction for them was to radiator pressure test but not just a static test but via a live test method.

The suggested method was
5psi pressure on a warm full radiator tank, then rev the bike up and down hard, yes the pressure will rise as it warms up but with the amount this is leaking they should notice the pressure gauge bounce or pulse unsteadily.

Back to the dealer, told them where I'd been. They know Phil well don't question his diagnosis and don't seem interested in doing one more final confirming test.

The dealership owner is now very interested and may push the workshop to carry out further tests.


Hows that sound so far? Everyone keeping up?


Cheers,

Q

 

[Quirky]

Interesting that the dealer would pick that out of the myriad of things it could be. Did he see the pod mod? Did he state your woes were specifically because of it or did he speculate that it could be because of it?

They would see it Charlie. My problems, could be because of the pod mod. They surprisingly recomended that fitting a power commander would be the only way to fix the pre-detonation issue with all this extra airflow. Then without any prompting told me that I wouldn't understand it's a really long story and that other fuel controller sensor gadgets don't work because the Lambda sensor has the final say on fuel mapping and would tune out these gizmo's. FFS I could near have strangled someone!

F!@#.....%(^&%^%^*$%*$%^&^$%$%^*$%^$%*^$%##$%#@*^$@#%^&*(#@%^&*(&%^$#@!@!#$%^^&&&**&^$@!@$%^&&^^%$##@%^ this mongrel $^())^$@#%&**&%$%^&*(((((&%$$@$%^^$%^&*&^%$%$# bastard airbox on this bike.

 

[mag00]

Sounds like your poor little gal is sick.

The powder you speak of, photos or better description available? Is it stop leak?

 

[glitch_oz]

Some of my queries were-
They came up with my Pod mod having a ram air effect. Said that the oem airbox was a still air design.

Total bollox.
The pod-modded airbox is still a still-air design, nothing's changed.
The intake hole is still at the "side" of the airbox, the flow-duct is untouched...the only change is an effective air-filter element, nothing else.
(That being said.... they'll now turn around and claim that it's not getting enough air because of the airfilter doing its job. The new-age curse of procedure-over-common sense at work, arrghh).

 

[Quirky]

Sounds like your poor little gal is sick.

The powder you speak of, photos or better description available? Is it stop leak?

I haven't taken any pics.

The technician at the dealer told me that PFG told him that the original supplied factory coolant was garbage and must be made from some sort of soluble powder and that changing coolant was the first fix to try.

The crap in my coolant appeared to me as scale. Almost like a good dose of dandruff floating throughout the liquid. My translucent plastic tank had this scale but also a really fine black sediment like a thin layer of fine coal dust and their was a small amount of crap floating around that kind of looked a bit like an algae.

The coolant appears very dark but still blue almost murky and dark looking not the light bright blue colour that I remember.

Cheers,

Q

 

[mag00]

I'm pretty sure the dealers serviced mine, meaning, added all fluid and assembled etc.

Mine don't have powder or such, so I seriously doubt that Husky supplied the stuff you describe. Document every thing, even if it does not seem important. Keep samples of the powder/sludge. Write down notes of what was said on the days you talk to them. Keep good records, or you will be spending thousands to fix it.

FYI, there is a relatively new head on ebay for $750. You might want to start a dialog with the seller, see if he ships to Oz etc. Yes, I am implying a cracked head, not a blown gasket. Your bike overheated, probably on dealer setup, and whoever did it tried stop leak to fix it.

And now it is showing up. Two separate problems, not related. Taking it to another mechanic for a second opinion sure couldn't hurt you either.

Best of Luck
Dave