The Italian Red Head that's going to lose it's head thread.

Discussion in 'TR650' started by Quirky, Aug 1, 2014.

  1. SpittingCobra Husqvarna
    A Class

    Location:
    Albany Creek, Brisbane, Australia
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    Tr650 Strada
    Other Motorcycles:
    KLX400
    My experience with lean-ness causing pinging is that you are likely to see the effects on the sparkplug, typically very white and sometimes melting the anode and in extreme cases melting a hole in the piston. Changing to a colder sparkplug will help prevent pinging but go too cold and it will become harder to start. I have not seen de-lamination of the head gasket caused by a lean mixture and think that more likely caused by water expanding into steam. (Technology and materials have changed over the years since I messed around modifying engines so I may be wrong here) Without any doubt, bubbles in the radiator before it reaches boiling point are a sure sign of compressed air being pumped into the water jacket, this would cause rapid and excessive pressure in the radiator when the cap is on.

    A compression test might reveal low compression, confirming the leak. An exhaust gas analyzer would reveal any lean-ness.

    I had the typical stumbling issue on my Strada and tried the eruption mod which eliminated the stalling but still had some surging at 3000 revs. I have since fitted a Powercommander and for the first time felt it is almost 100%. I think the PCV is absolutely the answer because I can fine tune it at any rev for pod mod, aftermarket exhaust or anything else. Of course the Autotune would be ideal and it would be very interesting to see if a PCV eliminated Quirky's pinging. Of course, if the head gasket is blown the only fix is a new gasket.
  2. mag00 Husqvarna
    Pro Class

    Location:
    Tucson
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    Terra, Strada
    Other Motorcycles:
    XR250 R1100RS CH50
    I'm not convinced on the waterless either, although it sounds wonderful.

    I'm not convinced lean caused the issue with Quirky either. If anything, I think carbon build did it. Our engines are high compression, high performance engines, they do not tolerate carbon build as well as the lower performance engines.

    https://www.hastingsmfg.com/ServiceTips/detonation_and_preignition.htm
  3. V8Astro Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    Central US / Missouri
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    2014 Strada / 2008 SMR510
    Other Motorcycles:
    Suzuki GS500, Yamaha TR125L
    Any updates Q?
  4. Quirky Husqvarna
    A Class

    Location:
    Hunter Valley, Oz
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    TR650
    Other Motorcycles:
    R1200GS
    Hopefully next week, workshop was booked solid for 2 weeks. We were hopeful of at least one job being cancelled, but not to be. Dealer has a possible source for an air box if I end up needing one. Fingers crossed!
  5. Slowflyer Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    TR 650 Terra
    Other Motorcycles:
    BMW R1150R Rockster
    Quirky, I have a spare new top and my original lower, air box if you get stuck. I bought a complete air box to do the 3 D printed mod.
    M
    Quirky likes this.
  6. nev.. Terrarist

    Location:
    Greensborough, Australia
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    '13 TR650 Terra
    Other Motorcycles:
    '14 XT1200ZE

    The crank case breather nipple broke off my airbox lower half, and I had my local shop get me a replacement under warranty. I didn't need to put it in, because I have (a few hours ago) done the pod-mod and rerouted that hose to a breather pod filter. The lower half of the airbox is sitting on a shelf at the dealership in Melbourne waiting for me to go and take it or do something with it. If you need it let me know.
    Quirky likes this.
  7. Quirky Husqvarna
    A Class

    Location:
    Hunter Valley, Oz
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    TR650
    Other Motorcycles:
    R1200GS
    Thanks for your offers and help with the air box. This waiting game is no good. I can only hope all will become obvious soon.
    What's it going to be?
    Head gasket
    Cracked head
    Casting issue

    Cheers,

    Q
  8. Quirky Husqvarna
    A Class

    Location:
    Hunter Valley, Oz
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    TR650
    Other Motorcycles:
    R1200GS
    Just got a promising message from the dealer. Claim has been approved. Tear down of the engine is scheduled for tomorrow.
    :D

    Cheers,
    Q.
  9. drzcharlie Husqvarna
    Pro Class

    Location:
    Fayetteville, Arkansas with my Redheaded Mistress
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    TR650 Terra
    Other Motorcycles:
    Burgman 650 (The Barcolounger)
    Do you know yet what happened or will that become evident during tear down?
  10. Quirky Husqvarna
    A Class

    Location:
    Hunter Valley, Oz
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    TR650
    Other Motorcycles:
    R1200GS
    No new information yet. If I don't hear from them tomorrow, I'll give them a call on Friday.

    Cheers,

    Q
  11. glitch_oz Husqvarna
    Pro Class

    Location:
    AUS
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    Strada
    That's good to hear.
    Still putting some $$ on a blown headgasket.
    But then...sounds like that bike was sick from the word 'go".
  12. drzcharlie Husqvarna
    Pro Class

    Location:
    Fayetteville, Arkansas with my Redheaded Mistress
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    TR650 Terra
    Other Motorcycles:
    Burgman 650 (The Barcolounger)
    +1 with what Glitch said. I'll be surprised based on your description of what happened that it isn't head gasket. Badrapp is right ya know, regardless of what has actually gone wrong, the rep must have reasoned that the air filter of choice wasn't the cause or tear down would not have been approved.
    Quirky likes this.
  13. Baddrapp Husqvarna
    AA Class

    Location:
    Yucca Valley
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    TR650
    Congrats Quirky. I deleted my comments.
    Quirky likes this.
  14. mag00 Husqvarna
    Pro Class

    Location:
    Tucson
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    Terra, Strada
    Other Motorcycles:
    XR250 R1100RS CH50
    I hope they get it back together before your summer hits. Got pictures? As some wise person said, "it didn't happen if there are no pictures".
  15. Quirky Husqvarna
    A Class

    Location:
    Hunter Valley, Oz
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    TR650
    Other Motorcycles:
    R1200GS
    What a week. I had freaky close call on Thursday night. I was doing inspection checks on a Bucyrus 1570w dragline, in the machinery house, looked over swing box #1 and #2 then had a good look at the drag rope tray, rollers and the rope itself. Yeah all looks good here, I turned around took 2 maybe 3 steps away and heard a fair amount of noise, sounding like tearing rope, a bang and a jolt went right through the near 4000 tonne machine. 5 more giant quick steps had me barging through the operators cab door loudly asking WTF was that? "snapped a drag rope, are you ok? sure your ok?" All good. Then to find my work mate very much pale looking like he was going to vomit, (going into shock) but obviously relieved I was ok. 10 minutes later he's still shaken but fine. Turns out the drag rope I was just 3 feet away from 2-3sec earlier failed somewhere near the fair leads. Be careful out there people.

    Ok, sorry had to share that, but that very event has high lighted to me the insignificance of my bikes drama's.

    Phoned the dealer this morning as promised. Turns out the approval for the work from the importer (PFG) was for a head gasket only.
    The good news- Bonus was they also had the new gasket ready to go straight in.
    The Bad news- the piston and bore is totally stuffed. Parts alone in excess of $2000. We will need to re-apply for a new work order from PFG and I was told they may not cover it at all. Also this damage was further proof that the "pod mod" caused the issue.

    1 hour later I received a call from the dealer with information from PFG.
    Good news- they'll cover it this one time.
    Bad news- no one has a clue how long it will take to get the parts. This may take while!

    They tell me the head and valves look perfectly fine and thought that my request for a loan of a FE501 for the mean time was really pushing my luck well beyond it's limits. Damage is piston and barrel only.



    Cheers,

    Q
  16. Quirky Husqvarna
    A Class

    Location:
    Hunter Valley, Oz
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    TR650
    Other Motorcycles:
    R1200GS
    20140814_121203.jpg 20140814_121213.jpg

    So if we have people that are able to read plugs then surely there's a few guru's who can decipher this whole story?
    What does all this tell you?
    Does this look like a lean running engine?
    I am still being told that it's still likely to be all the Air filter modifications fault.

    I don't know stuff all about engines, but the way those marks are would it not be possible that the head gasket failure has caused this pre-detonation issue. If it wasn't related wouldn't there be scouring in other places, I dunno?

    Cheers,

    Q
  17. drzcharlie Husqvarna
    Pro Class

    Location:
    Fayetteville, Arkansas with my Redheaded Mistress
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    TR650 Terra
    Other Motorcycles:
    Burgman 650 (The Barcolounger)
    So how is the problem due to the pod mod? What is there claim here? too much air? Not enough air? Air too clean? I don't get it.
  18. glitch_oz Husqvarna
    Pro Class

    Location:
    AUS
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    Strada
    Making sure I get this entirely right:
    The head gasket is rooted, so is the piston and barrel...but no damage to the head/ valves/ seats etc. at all?

    "Stuffed" meaning exactly what?
    What are the rings like (broken? one/ all?)
    If broken or fractured, any chafing/"re-surfacing" of the lip?
    Any debris in the bore?
    Filings/ debris in oil?
    Burn-marks/pitting or hole in piston/crack or split in the barrel?

    Was the airbox dirty BEFORE the PodMod was done?


    Good article here re: detonation damage.
    http://www.contactmagazine.com/Issue54/EngineBasics.html
  19. Quirky Husqvarna
    A Class

    Location:
    Hunter Valley, Oz
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    TR650
    Other Motorcycles:
    R1200GS

    Too much air. Causing a lean running engine. The TPS that was set at 70% for the Aussie LAM's approval also had nothing to do with the problem on my so called de-restricted bike because the ECU is clever enough that it can adapt this problem out.

    I still think it's BS. But hey, they are going to fix it one day.................... right!


    Cheers,

    Q
  20. glitch_oz Husqvarna
    Pro Class

    Location:
    AUS
    Husqvarna Motorcycle:
    Strada
    Absolutely!!
    As said before, it's still a still-air airbox after the PodMod, nothing's changed.