The Italian Red Head that's going to lose it's head thread.

[mag00]

My fault, I edited the bike from a drz400 to a dr650 for those very reasons you just mentioned Glitch. The 400 is better in every way. But it's only the big lazy singles that truly suit. Tenere, KLR, DR and I wonder now maybe what the specs are of KTM's old 640.

For all the reasons you've mentioned 27rich is why I have a TR. I'm just learning now about how and why these other slow poke thumper bikes still exist, why they haven't been hotted up and why they will continue to be produced.

So a G650GS top end ey?
Hmmmmm...

Thumpa, I am considering the base gasket options for sure, but doing so would change the valve timing. A g650 piston has a chance.

A g650 piston will have to weigh the same as the one you pull. Crank is lighter and balanced for the high performance piston. With the higher lift cam, the piston will still need the reliefs for the valves.

Maybe you could just put a thick head gasket in?

 

[nev..]

I'm asking myself how hard it'd be to plonk in a tried and proven G650 donk instead....

And the answer is, the RRP on the G650GS is almost identical to the RRP on the TR650. Why go to all the trouble. Sell the TR and buy the BMW.

 

[27rich]

Maybe its time to realise that anymore than 50 hp from a 650 single is just asking to much to remain reliable especially on the crap fuel we have available to us.

Wow, I didn't realise the 690 had so many known issues. There probably goes that idea.

I think with the money that I have in this bike im stuck with it and I'll just have to ride it untill IT'S END

 

[nev..]

Hey Quirky,
Can we get a clarification of the nitty gritty details again. I think sometimes the discussions can get a bit frenzied, with speculation breeding further speculation, and there comes a time to take a step back and just analyse all of the available evidence.

Your bike was already derestricted to 43kw version when still new?
You've always run it on 98RON where available and it always pinged even when running 98.

This thread has taken a long tangent into discussing changing compression ratios, and swapping engines out, but from the experience I've had with my bike, and plenty of other owners concur, that the Terra engines don't ping even when running on 91. So presumably, if the issues you're bike has suffered are as a result of the derestriction process not being followed correctly, and there is a logical sequence of events which explain the root cause and in turn, all of the symptoms you noticed and damage you've seen, then your case is an isolated case, and other TR650 owners are probably not likely to see a similar result.

 

[glitch_oz]

And the answer is, the RRP on the G650GS is almost identical to the RRP on the TR650. Why go to all the trouble. Sell the TR and buy the BMW.

True. But the reply was related to the point that the Terra isn't available anymore and the current bikes out there might need some substantial repairs at some time (and way beyond the warranty periods).

 

[Baddrapp]

I have pre ignition under full throttle. I always use super and try to buy at chevron. This has been when temps are over 100 degrees with the hottest at about 110.

 

[Quirky]

Nitty gritty details aye!
4km The bike was de-restricted by my dealer the day I picked it up brand new.
700km Rode it back there for the first service, asked them to check for any updates for the ECU because I wasn't impressed by the performance.
1600kmRode with a mate on a Honda transalp and just couldn't match him on the hills due to the engine ping issue. It was pretty bad and didn't push it. I was looking for loose bolts, siliconed up the edges of my rad-gaurd, pulled the bashplate looking for another cause as I didn't really notice a performance drop when it pinged.
Fitted up a Wuka temp spoofer, helped.
I think i remember topping the coolant expansion tank up once, like 1/2 a cup.
Fitted up BM-Afxied setting #7, helped even more.
2200kmThe pod mod was then done, felt nicer bottom rev to mid rev range. Some of you will recall that my bike was special and made oil from the engine breather.
5000km pulled some engine oil out from the frame slightly as it was over full and looked like shit. (not foamy or anything just real dark and stink)
5 500km Back to the dealer for a oil weep from coolant tell hole that took up completely on this ride and was left well alone. An oil change was requested and asked for info on the pinging issue. The mechanic jumped straight at telling me he would check the TPS range. Job done and indeed it appears that the TPS wasn't done before. Rode home with a smile on my face from ear to ear because holly snapping duck shit, was it going well. Detonation issue was much better and not of real concern. When I got home I noticed a drop of coolant or so on the radiator and simply thought that the workshop had topped it up and overfilled it.
6 500km Trip away with a few others, fark i'm using lots of fuel, way more than everyone else and more than my 1200 ever would have, so dialled the BM-Afxied back to #4 which helped a lot. Its top end was stronger and fuel consumption was comparable to the other bikes.

I guess somewhere after that trip the pinging started to creep back in and cause concern, at the same time as trying to sort out the fuel consumption.

This had me on and off the throttle hard determining whether more fuel was helping to reduce the pinging or what effect disconnecting the BM-Afxied had on this issue. The pinging didn't change one bit in this case but noticed the performance drop when I dropped the AFxied. I was pretty much done with this experiment had the AFxied on #4 just wondering if it was worse than the other 2 options when the coolant pushed out from the expansion tank with the temp gauge completly showing normal.

 

[V8Astro]

Maybe its time to realise that anymore than 50 hp from a 650 single is just asking to much to remain reliable especially on the crap fuel we have available to us.

I would have to disagree. My 08 SMR510 (really a 501cc) makes 60hp. It's more high-strung than the TR650 and the engine has 8000 miles on it. HARD miles....

I would AGREE that having crap fuel would be a problem. The fuel quality where I kick around is great...

 

[SpittingCobra]

Does the piston pitting occur where the head gasket blew? I would like to see a photo of the head too.
Sounds like the gasket blew around 1600km mark and airation of the coolant caused a hot-spot leading to detonation, likely somewhere near exhaust valves causing the etching of the piston in that area. One thing for sure, once the gasket is blown, the engine would not run properly no matter what you do. Pod-mod would have no effect because you already have low compression, possible coolant or air sucked back into cylinder, hot-spots, etc. From there on you were trying to compensate for the blown head gasket. If it is the pod mod, it will continue to ping after the repair.

I wouldn't be concerned about compression being too high as your blown gasket seems like an isolated case. Ask the dealer for a good deal on a PC and autotune for some compensation.

 

[glitch_oz]

I wouldn't be concerned about compression being too high as your blown gasket seems like an isolated case.

Keep reading around then....and find quite a few more.

 

[Quirky]

Does the piston pitting occur where the head gasket blew? I would like to see a photo of the head too.
Sounds like the gasket blew around 1600km mark and airation of the coolant caused a hot-spot leading to detonation, likely somewhere near exhaust valves causing the etching of the piston in that area. One thing for sure, once the gasket is blown, the engine would not run properly no matter what you do. Pod-mod would have no effect because you already have low compression, possible coolant or air sucked back into cylinder, hot-spots, etc. From there on you were trying to compensate for the blown head gasket. If it is the pod mod, it will continue to ping after the repair.

I wouldn't be concerned about compression being too high as your blown gasket seems like an isolated case. Ask the dealer for a good deal on a PC and autotune for some compensation.

I'd love to see a picture of the head also. I find it hard to believe that all is well.
I have requested for the head to be sent away to an appropriate repair shop and checked over at my cost. Will it happen?
I have also simply asked for options, regarding dropping the compression ratio before re-assembly at my cost. This would help me to keep this bike for my intended future use. I know not bloody likely, but I just had to ask. If I had my time over again I should have set up a DR650SE.
This whole compression ratio thing wasn't something on my adventure bike checklist and isn't a problem for me on good fuel but becomes slightly more problematic when "Opal" fuel may become the only option.

In the mean time, for the Pod Modded bikes out there it may be wise to keep your airboxes buttoned up. (just don't add any more airflow to the system what so ever, unless you can check AFR's and tune it!) A spare replacement airbox would also be a good insurance policy.



Cheers,

Q

 

[glitch_oz]

but becomes slightly more problematic when "Opal" fuel may become the only option.

As an aside...weren't there quite a few "octane-boosters" around ?

Like this stuff?
http://www.nulon.com.au/products/Fuel_Treatments/Pro-Strength_Octane_Booster/#.U_vfobHrjhQ

 

[lexo39yahoo]

Hi Quirky,
I think I might be able to help you with fixing your bike and converting it to a BMW G650 top-end as I might just have the parts you need (Cylinder, Piston and Head). Message me soon and we'll take it from there. I live just south of Sydney.

 

[Nick780]

Hi Quirky,
I think I might be able to help you with fixing your bike and converting it to a BMW G650 top-end as I might just have the parts you need (Cylinder, Piston and Head). Message me soon and we'll take it from there. I live just south of Sydney.

 

[SpittingCobra]

Keep reading around then....and find quite a few more.

Maybe the head torque should be checked at 1000km?

 

[Quirky]

My bike has been bolted back up together with it's new parts as of the 7th of September. It has been fitted up with a head gasket from BMW instead of Husqvarna due to availability issues.
I have ordered a PC-V for it and have given Jamie Stauffer at Dr Macs engines a heads up that he will be seeing us for a Dyno tuning session in a few weeks time. Planning to pick the bike up on the 27th at this stage and I am currently hunting around for a preloved worn out/cheap 18" rear road tyre for using on the dyno.

What sort of engine run in proceedure should I follow before it gets a run on the dyno?


Cheers,

Q

 

[mag00]

My bike has been bolted back up together with it's new parts as of the 7th of September. It has been fitted up with a head gasket from BMW instead of Husqvarna due to availability issues.
I have ordered a PC-V for it and have given Jamie Stauffer at Dr Macs engines a heads up that he will be seeing us for a Dyno tuning session in a few weeks time. Planning to pick the bike up on the 27th at this stage and I am currently hunting around for a preloved worn out/cheap 18" rear road tyre for using on the dyno.

What sort of engine run in proceedure should I follow before it gets a run on the dyno?


Cheers,

Q

According to tons of experts on engines, nobody really knows, as they all have differing opinions.

But to me, the most critical is the first 2 minutes of running. Those two minutes you take the time to seat the rings and other parts. Rolling on the throttle fairly hard and then rolling off, not snapping it closed. (no load)

Then, the break in is up to you, but from a metallurgical point, the heating and cooling cycles are important. Bring the bike up to operating temps for 30 minutes or so, driving nice, but not babying, (twisties is the best 4 me) then let cool down completely. Do this temperature cycle at minimum 5 times before you dyno. You'll probably want about 400-500 miles and an oil change also. Use premium fuel, or ad an octane boost.

This will allow the parts to expand and contract and settle into where they will be. Makes for a happier motor.

I'm sure there are other methods, some may just put it right on the dyno. The choice is all yours

 

[Greg Jetnikoff]

Is it just me or have we just missed the obvious. If it is pinging there is a possibility that the injectors are clogged/ not opening correctly, the injector pump is too low a pressure or the ecu is faulty. All these will cause pinging. Have these been checked ?

 

[Quirky]

Is it just me or have we just missed the obvious. If it is pinging there is a possibility that the injectors are clogged/ not opening correctly, the injector pump is too low a pressure or the ecu is faulty. All these will cause pinging. Have these been checked ?

I doubt those have been checked. It's hard to draw the attention away from the air filter modifications. You could be right Greg, but I still believe that the TPS set at 70% was the main reason for this mess.
How involved is it to check the injector and pump pressure? At this stage I doubt the dealer sent the head of to be trued and checked at my cost as requested. Who knows if they'll check the fuel system.
Otherwise give it a run for say 500km, avoid any pinging if it even exists, give it a service and get it on the dyno. If something is funky we should find it soon enough.

 

[DanD]

I have pre ignition under full throttle. I always use super and try to buy at chevron. This has been when temps are over 100 degrees with the hottest at about 110.

I notice the pinging and stalling in high temp situations too. Now that it's getting cooler 'round here the Strada is a sweetheart of a bike. My fueling problems are definitely tied to operating temperatures.