2013 TE310r Electric start issues

[airrider]

OK,Ok, so I've read numerous threads on the subject and it looks more like a mechanical issue rather than electric. I've adjusted my valves so the auto-decompression works and I've changed starter solenoid and cleaned all connections. Also dropped in the Shorei battery.
It e-starts good cold but when hot, it's back to the kickstarter.
So what is the best solution to this? Do I change the ring gear and it's done or can it still be something else?
Please help! Bike serial numbers are 00009 and 00010, yes, we got two of them.
Started great when new, but after 750 miles and a winter, it acts like...well you know...

 

[Johnrg]

Temp sensor on the back of the cylinder possibly. It's one of the items replaced on mine for the issue. I have not had any heat related starting issues in a year or more since.

 

[airrider]

Temp sensor on the back of the cylinder possibly. It's one of the items replaced on mine for the issue. I have not had any heat related starting issues in a year or more since.

The real issue is the starter motor physically turning over the engine. Ignition and fueling is excellent hot or cold. I can kick it hot and she starts, it's just when you're halfway up a hill and I get stuck in a tight spot, kicking can be a pain in the ass.

Did my dealer not send me a recall notice for the starter gears, I've read numerous posts about this. Going to the dealer this afternoon.

 

[Boogie]

The real issue is the starter motor physically turning over the engine. Ignition and fueling is excellent hot or cold. I can kick it hot and she starts, it's just when you're halfway up a hill and I get stuck in a tight spot, kicking can be a pain in the ass.

Did my dealer not send me a recall notice for the starter gears, I've read numerous posts about this. Going to the dealer this afternoon.

Mine is similar. Please update if you find a solution.

 

[Johnrg]

My starter gears were done with the recall during the same service. I did have to prod the dealer in finding out if my bikes VIN was included, which it was. I had stalled as well on steep sandy terrain in 100 degree temps. Was not a happy camper unable to get going. Hope you get it sorted.

 

[bigmo]

OK,Ok, so I've read numerous threads on the subject and it looks more like a mechanical issue rather than electric. I've adjusted my valves so the auto-decompression works and I've changed starter solenoid and cleaned all connections. Also dropped in the Shorei battery.
It e-starts good cold but when hot, it's back to the kickstarter.
So what is the best solution to this? Do I change the ring gear and it's done or can it still be something else?
Please help! Bike serial numbers are 00009 and 00010, yes, we got two of them.
Started great when new, but after 750 miles and a winter, it acts like...well you know...

Not a ding on your wrenching skills, but are you sure you are checking/adjusting the valves right?

Your statement reeks of tight valves...

I know you probably know that, but figured it was worth saying (as an outsider).

 

[airrider]

Not a ding on your wrenching skills, but are you sure you are checking/adjusting the valves right?
Your statement reeks of tight valves...
I know you probably know that, but figured it was worth saying (as an outsider).

If it was tight valves, the kickstarter would be easy to cycle thru. I made sure the shim I chose gives me clearance on the tighter end. When you say "tight" valves, I think you mean loose valves. Loose valves would not allow the auto-decompression to work. Either way, thanks for the heads up!

My starter gears were done with the recall during the same service. I did have to prod the dealer in finding out if my bikes VIN was included, which it was. I had stalled as well on steep sandy terrain in 100 degree temps. Was not a happy camper unable to get going. Hope you get it sorted.

Did the gears make all the difference for ya? I called my dealer, he said the gears are in stock, now I gotta negotiate warranty or not.

 

[bigmo]

If it was tight valves, the kickstarter would be difficult to cycle thru. I made sure the shim I chose gives me clearance on the tighter end. When you say "tight" valves, I think you mean loose valves. Loose valves would not allow the auto-decompression to work. Either way, thanks for the heads up!

Well, not what I meant. I have had a modern 250 four stroke for quite a few years. My exhaust would ALWAYS tighten first. First indication that I needed to adjust was that the button stopped working and I had to kick it. I never could feel a difference between valves in perfect spec and super tight (with the kicker, that is).

I could change nothing else but the shims and the button would light it right up.

May be off base - but worth checking your math really well.

 

[airrider]

What's your opinion, when the engine gets hot, the valve clearance is reduced or opens up?
These new redheads have some kind of diamond coating on the rockers and I'm assuming the adjustment should last longer than a few days.
How often do you see your e-start bog down due to comp release fail?
I went 2 shim increments (-.010mm) to get in spec for the comp release to work, and yeah, now that I really check it, the kicker has more resistance now than it did right after that adjustment 3 mos ago.

 

[bigmo]

What's your opinion, when the engine gets hot, the valve clearance is reduced or opens up?
These new redheads have some kind of diamond coating on the rockers and I'm assuming the adjustment should last longer than a few days.
How often do you see your e-start bog down due to comp release fail?
I went 2 shim increments (-.010mm) to get in spec for the comp release to work, and yeah, now that I really check it, the kicker has more resistance now than it did right after that adjustment 3 mos ago.

I cannot say for sure on THIS bike - but on most bikes, there is some measurable thermal expansion that occurs. All of the smaller four strokes I have owned seemed more prone to it than big bores, but it may be more of a design issue using advanced alloys as opposed tot he displacement.

The reason I posted is it sounded EXACTLY how I determined when I needed to adjust. I quit checking and just knew that when the button failed to light, it was time to adjust. I could squeeze several hours out of it by kicking...but eventually even kicking was a no go (especially if hot). A quick shim job and then button would light her right up.

You sound as if you got the shimming down pat - so it could be something else completely. But I wanted to make absolute sure you got the right clearance (I have gotten my math wrong a few times until I built an Excel no-brainer tool to help out).

 

[robertaccio]

get all your mech and possibly your start relay, parts squared away then get an Earth-X Li battery, big difference in cranking.

 

[airrider]

get all your mech and possibly your start relay, parts squared away then get an Earth-X Li battery, big difference in cranking.

Changed start relay, started nice for about 5 times, but when warmed up she couldn't turn over, so that's not it. Shorei batt installed and maintains voltage real nice. In fact, cleaning and tightening all connections adds some life to the starter, but for only a few starts. Each time I think I solved it, it goes sour shortly thereafter.
NOW...I have the "upgrade" gear kit in hand and eager to drop them in. The parts guy I talked to said he's never had anybody come back and say it didn't work, so, here we go again. Hoping this might do it.

 

[w2ge]

FWIW, I understand that Shorai lisiing of the "applicable" drop-in replacement battery is under "amped" and that a larger amperage is more of an equivalent...

Caveat: This is from my BMW bike knowledge (for the R1200RT), so... not sure if it is applicable for the 310.

 

[airrider]

FWIW, I understand that Shorai lisiing of the "applicable" drop-in replacement battery is under "amped" and that a larger amperage is more of an equivalent...

Caveat: This is from my BMW bike knowledge (for the R1200RT), so... not sure if it is applicable for the 310.

Is that something you read somewhere or from personal experience?

 

[Mike-AK]

When you say "tight" valves, I think you mean loose valves.

I thought as valves recede into the seats that the clearance between the buckets and the cam lobes decreases, i.e., gets tighter so you have to go to a thinner shim to keep them within tolerance?

 

[airrider]

I thought as valves recede into the seats that the clearance between the buckets and the cam lobes decreases, i.e., gets tighter so you have to got a thinner shim to keep them within tolerance?

If that was the case, then the auto decomp would always work and improve until the valve burns.

My measurement showed a bigger gap (I call that "loose") so I went to thicker shims (+.010mm) to reduce the gap (tighten up) and that cracks the valve open more to allow compression to escape.
Either way, I'm going to install those gears when my flywheel puller arrives. A fellow husky owner suggested that I gently hit the flywheel with a hammer while using a standard jaw puller and heating the hub. Naaaaa. The engine is too delicate.

 

[w2ge]

Is that something you read somewhere or from personal experience?

Read that in BMWST forums, some very knowledgeable users on there. They had an issue that Shorai was not really giving an equivalent amperage replacement for the RT and GS batteries. Many Beemer riders have stayed away from the LiFePo4 s you need a higher voltage to charge them and many stators don't really do the trick.. as well as when they are cold they don't give a good start. Odyssey seems to be that battery of choice.. Odyssey is the retail arm of the EXIDE military spec batteries. http://www.odysseybattery.com/

 

[airrider]

Read that in BMWST forums, some very knowledgeable users on there. They had an issue that Shorai was not really giving an equivalent amperage replacement for the RT and GS batteries. Many Beemer riders have stayed away from the LiFePo4 s you need a higher voltage to charge them and many stators don't really do the trick.. as well as when they are cold they don't give a good start. Odyssey seems to be that battery of choice.. Odyssey is the retail arm of the EXIDE military spec batteries. http://www.odysseybattery.com/

Nothing but lead-acid in my Sprint, but then I wish I had a heated seat. I bet the Shorai wouldn't keep up to my winter riding.

 

[airrider]

My starter gears were done with the recall during the same service. I did have to prod the dealer in finding out if my bikes VIN was included, which it was. I had stalled as well on steep sandy terrain in 100 degree temps. Was not a happy camper unable to get going. Hope you get it sorted.

Whats the last 4 of your serial? If you don't mind.

 

[Johnrg]

0041