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Hi everyone,
As you all know, Coffee (Dean) passed away a couple of years ago. I am Dean's ex-wife's husband and happen to have spent my career in tech. Over the years, I occasionally helped Dean with various tech issues.
When he passed, I worked with his kids to gather the necessary credentials to keep this site running. Since then (and for however long they worked with Coffee), Woodschick and Dirtdame have been maintaining the site and covering the costs. Without their hard work and financial support, CafeHusky would have been lost.
Over the past couple of weeks, I’ve been working to migrate the site to a free cloud compute instance so that Woodschick and Dirtdame no longer have to fund it. At the same time, I’ve updated the site to a current version of XenForo (the discussion software it runs on). The previous version was outdated and no longer supported.
Unfortunately, the new software version doesn’t support importing the old site’s styles, so for now, you’ll see the XenForo default style. This may change over time.
Coffee didn’t document the work he did on the site, so I’ve been digging through the old setup to understand how everything was running. There may still be things I’ve missed. One known issue is that email functionality is not yet working on the new site, but I hope to resolve this over time.
Thanks for your patience and support!
449/511 communication with ECU
- Thread starter R. Stephen
- Start date
domrvt
Husqvarna
AA Class
From the wiring diagram, the diagnostic connector pinout is:
6 - Positive
4 - Keyed Positive
3 - K Line
5 - Ground
An OBD2 connector is:
16 - Positive
7 - K Line
4 - Ground
How do I contact you?
I pinged you a message on the TuneECU web site, but I never have confidence in "Contact us" pages ☺.
I am willing (and eager) to test this on my CCM, the low speed fuelling on the GP450 is dire, if not dangerous!
Please let me know if I can help with getting a solution developed for fellow CCM and Husky sufferers. If you no longer need any Beta testing could you kindly let me know?
Regards,
Martin
Dangermouse449
Husqvarna
Pro Class
Martin,
Funny I should read your reply on this tread today as I've just ridden the CCM GP450 today at the Australian launch.
I did have the bike still while trying to execute a spin turn.
My TE449 runs sweet these days, so it caught me a little off guard.
Do you have your usb key with the software for the bike??
Funny I should read your reply on this tread today as I've just ridden the CCM GP450 today at the Australian launch.
I did have the bike still while trying to execute a spin turn.
My TE449 runs sweet these days, so it caught me a little off guard.
Do you have your usb key with the software for the bike??
Hi dangermouse,
The USB stick only had a pdf workshop manual on it, no software for the bike itself. The stalling gets better as it gets run in. After 2,000 miles either I have got mire used to it, or the looser engine and adaptations stop the stalls. Unless you try to pull off in 3rd :-)
The major bug-bear is on a very light throttle. Say you are descending a hill on gravel tracks and shut the throttle in 4th to about 30MPH. If you very slightly open the throttle it starts to surge, with a bit of a bang. You can control it with the clutch, but it would be nice not to have to. Once it starts doing this, if you hold the throttle at that exact point and pull in the clutch, the engine happily sits there revving and slowing down in a cycle. It will keep doubg that til the throttle is opened further, or closed. My guess us that the secondary air valve is cycling open and shut, and the cam on the end is then opening the main butterfly. The ECU then sees the rpm go up so it moves the secondary again. Then ut stats again.
I want to get at the TPS to see if setting that at 0.8 v closed helps.
The USB stick only had a pdf workshop manual on it, no software for the bike itself. The stalling gets better as it gets run in. After 2,000 miles either I have got mire used to it, or the looser engine and adaptations stop the stalls. Unless you try to pull off in 3rd :-)
The major bug-bear is on a very light throttle. Say you are descending a hill on gravel tracks and shut the throttle in 4th to about 30MPH. If you very slightly open the throttle it starts to surge, with a bit of a bang. You can control it with the clutch, but it would be nice not to have to. Once it starts doing this, if you hold the throttle at that exact point and pull in the clutch, the engine happily sits there revving and slowing down in a cycle. It will keep doubg that til the throttle is opened further, or closed. My guess us that the secondary air valve is cycling open and shut, and the cam on the end is then opening the main butterfly. The ECU then sees the rpm go up so it moves the secondary again. Then ut stats again.
I want to get at the TPS to see if setting that at 0.8 v closed helps.
I can only confirm this behaviour with the GP450 and also sent a message over the contact form. Maybe the "removing the secondary butterfly mod" from dangermouse will resolve this issue. But, without "monitoring" the engine and endanger the reliability or the fuel consumption, I won't risk that. Whatever, bluetooth ELM327 and Android device are ready, I hope tuneecu will release a first version in the next weeks/months.
Dangermouse449
Husqvarna
Pro Class
With the bike in warranty, I'd be a little hesitant to be messing with the efi system.
I'm not aware of what specific tuning CCM have done with their version of the bike.
That said, that crazy dual butterfly setup is horrible.
The experience you seem to be having downhill also seems reminiscent of my TE449 used to do, namely holding up engine rpm on over-run but not consistently.
I removed the idle roller from my bike and have full engine braking on closed throttle.
This may not be ideal on a road ridden bike for the gearbox and wet road traction.
(something to consider before doing)
If you were to increase fuelling, by going to the full power option CCM offer, that may assist you with the stalling.
You will need more frequent oil changes.
I'm not aware of what specific tuning CCM have done with their version of the bike.
That said, that crazy dual butterfly setup is horrible.
The experience you seem to be having downhill also seems reminiscent of my TE449 used to do, namely holding up engine rpm on over-run but not consistently.
I removed the idle roller from my bike and have full engine braking on closed throttle.
This may not be ideal on a road ridden bike for the gearbox and wet road traction.
(something to consider before doing)
If you were to increase fuelling, by going to the full power option CCM offer, that may assist you with the stalling.
You will need more frequent oil changes.
Stalling and flame-outs are not an issue, the power surges are the main problem I would like to resolve.
The repitive snatching throughout the engine gerabox and drive train cannot be doing any good either; it is not just a rythmoic surging that plagues most super-lean EFI systems, it comes in with real bang and drops off with a fast snap shut-off.
At CCM they know this is a problem and they are working with Power Commander to assist customers with an after-sales offering. I like to look at the problem head-on. I have never seen the PC as a durable product, on my 1200GSA it did not like living ouside, exposed to the elements.
Removal of the idler arm and the secondary butterfly, and resetting the TPS to give me 0.79v at fully closed would be my first guess. The 0.79v is what a Beta version of TuneECU reports for the main butterfly TPS, when it i sheld held open by the secondary. I will shove a Innovations O2 sensor up the exhaust pipe to check what that does.
If TuneECU do release a working version for the CCM and 449 I would be one happy bunny, on my KTM 690 it was invaluable at sorting an unstable idle, flame-outs and surging.
I have the Quill exhaust on order, so it would be good to know where everything is before I fit that.
The repitive snatching throughout the engine gerabox and drive train cannot be doing any good either; it is not just a rythmoic surging that plagues most super-lean EFI systems, it comes in with real bang and drops off with a fast snap shut-off.
At CCM they know this is a problem and they are working with Power Commander to assist customers with an after-sales offering. I like to look at the problem head-on. I have never seen the PC as a durable product, on my 1200GSA it did not like living ouside, exposed to the elements.
Removal of the idler arm and the secondary butterfly, and resetting the TPS to give me 0.79v at fully closed would be my first guess. The 0.79v is what a Beta version of TuneECU reports for the main butterfly TPS, when it i sheld held open by the secondary. I will shove a Innovations O2 sensor up the exhaust pipe to check what that does.
If TuneECU do release a working version for the CCM and 449 I would be one happy bunny, on my KTM 690 it was invaluable at sorting an unstable idle, flame-outs and surging.
I have the Quill exhaust on order, so it would be good to know where everything is before I fit that.
full power option breaks warranty
I received a beta version from tuneecu, will have to wait until Sunday to give a first try.
That's really interesting and a little bit strange. They're aware of the problem, can configure a PC to correct it but did not implemented the solution into the EFI when they "re-developed" the mapping with BMW?
Whatever, I'm really happy with the bike and the engine. Correcting the low throttle problem would make it nearly perfect for my needs.
If I understood them correctly they run it very lean to comply with the emissions regs.
Dangermouse449
Husqvarna
Pro Class
Why not just enable the power up tune offered by CCM??
Surely that is set correctly.
On my own TE449, 0. 75v at idle on the primary TPS has made the lean spot off idle barely detectable and no more flameouts.
The CCM did stall for me on a track when o executed a spin turn and was near identical to the 449 pre adjustment.
The tuning options for the PCV sound great and people make good power with them but I've never liked piggyback tuning.
Effective, but not very elegant and there's the possible reliability issues you mention.
Better to adjust the already tunable original if you can.
Surely that is set correctly.
On my own TE449, 0. 75v at idle on the primary TPS has made the lean spot off idle barely detectable and no more flameouts.
The CCM did stall for me on a track when o executed a spin turn and was near identical to the 449 pre adjustment.
The tuning options for the PCV sound great and people make good power with them but I've never liked piggyback tuning.
Effective, but not very elegant and there's the possible reliability issues you mention.
Better to adjust the already tunable original if you can.
Good question. The "Power Up " optional is just a commercially available plug ( Econoseal J-sries I thin) with a jumper between the 2 pins. If thsi were a quest for more power that would have been my first step. By jumping across those terminals the ECU load a differnet map, which also has the rev-limiter set much higher.
CCM claim that when that cond map is loaded some register is set in the ECU, that shows the map has been loaded, and that the warranty is null and void from that point on, something I am keen to avoid so early on in my ownership. It probably does this by recording the maximum revs used and the maximum rev limit set.
Using the second map, CCM advise much shorter service intervals. Couple that with the warranty warning and it seems to me that the lower power and lower rev limit should provide for longer engine life.
At this stage it is the really annoying violet on-off behaviour of the engine at light throttle that I want to eliminate. Flame-outs do not occur, just this hard shut-off followed by an immediate and hard power surge that comes in with a real bang. Hold the throttle at that exact point and pull the clutch and the engine still rythmically cycles through this behaviour. To me that seems like an issue in the progamming of the butterfly valve, or bad mapping. It can be worked around with a lot of clutch work, but when riding around town, this gets to be a real pain. On tight alpine (switchback?) curves it becomes more than a bit scary. As a dual-port machine I would like it to be usable in these scenarios too.
The way I am looking a this is if CCM are prepared to sanction the use of a PC, then a remap by TuneECU is more or less the same thing. So long as the lower rev limit is not exceeded I believe I have a reasonable point, should I need to argue it.
Being cautious about this I am hoping that PC release their CCM maps soon, TuneECU has an option to import their tables into the standard maps. That will take a lot of guess work and trial by ass out of the process. My first thought is to just add 5% across the board in the F-trim. I am waiting for TuneECU to confirm whether uploading should be OK, or if it is sill at an "experimental" stage.
Dangermouse449
Husqvarna
Pro Class
What a silly situation you have.
You have 2 maps in your ecu, both of which were set up in a controlled environment by the engine manufacturer.
In one map the engine runs poorly, in the other, it will likely be great, BUT you're telling me that will void warranty!!
HOWEVER if an unknown third party tunes the base map from within (quite possibly richer than your second map), or fits a PCV and does the same thing, then they'll stand by and warrant the engine.
I don't imagine they will.
A couple of points to mention...
1/ the engines are very hardy, not very many engine failures around
2/ if the ecu is the same as a 449/511 then there's a rev limiter 'clock' that keeps count of how long the engine has been at the limiter.... I'd suggest that it's highly likely that the CCM is the same.
If you aren't bouncing off the limiter all day going down the road you'll be fine
3/ the shorter service intervals are to change the engine oil more often as it becomes diluted by the richer mixtures of the more powerful maps.
4/ Additional fuel by whatever means (second map/tune ecu/PCV) will require these shorter intervals - nothing to do with rev limits.
5/ the PCV and original software have no provision for settings of the crazy second butterfly valve. Remove the butterfly plate, then see if you need any additional tuning adjustments after.
You have 2 maps in your ecu, both of which were set up in a controlled environment by the engine manufacturer.
In one map the engine runs poorly, in the other, it will likely be great, BUT you're telling me that will void warranty!!
HOWEVER if an unknown third party tunes the base map from within (quite possibly richer than your second map), or fits a PCV and does the same thing, then they'll stand by and warrant the engine.
I don't imagine they will.
A couple of points to mention...
1/ the engines are very hardy, not very many engine failures around
2/ if the ecu is the same as a 449/511 then there's a rev limiter 'clock' that keeps count of how long the engine has been at the limiter.... I'd suggest that it's highly likely that the CCM is the same.
If you aren't bouncing off the limiter all day going down the road you'll be fine
3/ the shorter service intervals are to change the engine oil more often as it becomes diluted by the richer mixtures of the more powerful maps.
4/ Additional fuel by whatever means (second map/tune ecu/PCV) will require these shorter intervals - nothing to do with rev limits.
5/ the PCV and original software have no provision for settings of the crazy second butterfly valve. Remove the butterfly plate, then see if you need any additional tuning adjustments after.
Removing the buttefly plate and idler arm definitely stops the violent surging. I know that works, and will void warranty. I was hoping to find a programming solution to this. Maybe I should just stop there, whatever happens I lose my warranty.
Seems my options will be:
1)Nasty engine behaviour
or
2) No warrantee
or
3) wait until CCM endorse teh PC solution then pay them for a PC.
Seems my options will be:
1)Nasty engine behaviour
or
2) No warrantee
or
3) wait until CCM endorse teh PC solution then pay them for a PC.
Hopefully they will be able to reflash the ECU. Not sure about some places, but I know that technically, use of a tuner like a PCV is illegal on road registered bikes here in some states of the US.
Dangermouse449
Husqvarna
Pro Class
I'm talking to CCM about the oil problem too.
I have a new breather solution that will work with the engine.
Waiting to hear back from them to see if they're interested.
They'll be able to get the proper amount of oil to stay in the engine.
I have a new breather solution that will work with the engine.
Waiting to hear back from them to see if they're interested.
They'll be able to get the proper amount of oil to stay in the engine.