TE/TC 4CS Issues

[Aaron platt]

ha ha ha good stuff Mike. And I don't think you ever let me light it so I put gear oil in your damper.

Are these dampners still available? I have been unsuccessful at contacting you via phone and PM on this site. I bought two Scotts this year, but would have rather had yours in a sub mount.

 

[Motosportz]

PM sent as to not further derail this thread.

 

[Motosportz]

I have tried to refer a few to you Kelly for WR450 Lectron kits as an example and they never could get ahold of you either.

Appreciated. I have sold over 350 Lectrons, no one is having issues getting ahold of me. A simple Email does it (as stated on my web site under contact in big red letters). This site is loaded with happy customers as is KTM talk and GG forum and Beta forum etc. And yes, I am selective at times who I do biz with, I have been at the receiving end of your rants many times and called out many times as you think I follow you around and post on your posts and thought it best to just let this sale slide for both of us. Not mad, nothing personal just the situation as it is.

Ok back to the forks...

 

[lankydoug]

Aron, Within 6 months of buying my Husky I was in a KTM dealer that had so many left over bikes that he literally has to leave bikes outside and lock them in the doorway to go home at night yet his lowest price (250 2t) was $1,100 higher then the Husky I bought. Your opinion of a gold standard is not shared by me. I really woul like to like the new Husky but the forks and the high price makes it a no go. Btw LTR did my shock for 150 and my forks for less then 300 which is another thing to consider before I buy the gold standard.

This is a good thread and has given me the info I need about the 4cs forks. if you want to argue about KTM's gold standard I'll be glad to make my case against it as long as you start another thread.

 

[diggs345]

hey bowser , where does the 1mm bleed go in the midvalve , i have been chatting with terry too, although i have a good setting with my kreft parts , it would still be good to try terrys settings .
chris

I'm currently installing yet another $$CS setup in my forks, they have had more revalves than I would have liked but suspension is something that interests me and they still aren't how I would like them.
I have tried varying shim settings with std parts, flipped checks so both adjusters on top are comp, rebound bleed shim setup, Kreft variant with kreft mid valve and race tech base adjuster and a slight change to the kreft shim settings to suit. Honestly I don't see why all the guys rave about his setup on other forums, to me I had them working better for cheaper with the stock parts. I was expecting more from them for the price (parts only, i do my own work)

I haven't tried removing the blue oring and converting them to open chambers, this to me is a step backwards.

The setup i'm trying this weekend is being supported by Terry Hay at Shock Treatment in Australia, Terry has posted the basic details on KTM talk which is using stock mid valve with a bleed hole, race tech base adjusters and race tech G2r gold valves, check valves removed. I'm excited by this setup, I have previously used Terry before with success and he is very positive this will the best I have tried yet....here's hoping.

 

[Aaron platt]

Lets call it the Orange standard. LOL

I'm not saying you have to like KTM/Husky, but it does always seem to be the standard that all others are ultimately compared to. Unfortunately, KTM has a long history of using crappy forks.

I still don't think its a fair to compare new non-current inventory to new Huskys and KTM's and say they're too expensive. Especially when you consider the premium features found on the KTM's. Maybe when you own a 4CS equipped machine we will have more to talk about.


My experience has been rather good with the 4CS forks, once I got them dialed in and figured out.
- My FE501 was more than ok in stock form. My only complaint was that the suspension on each end was a little too soft for me. I weigh 185 and the target weight for the stock springs is about 170 pounds. I installed a 6KG rear spring and went up to .50kg in the front. I initially found the forks to be on the harsh side like you see written everywhere. I checked/reset my oil level down to the stock 100mm and the bike was pretty good for stock valving. Just out of curiosity I lowered the oil to 110mm and have been riding it this way for awhile. The bike tracks well and has a very planted feeling compared to others that I've ridden. Ultimately I plan on having Factory Connection do the forks. I'd like to see how their BCV setup works.

- My TE300 was another story. It was equally under sprung as the 501, and now has a 57Nm rear and .48kg front springs. I played with oil heights and was never happy with the results. It displayed the same harshness and seemed to be the typical 4cs story that others describe. I had Zipty do the fork and shock with good results. I don't mind the new base valves and the bottom compression adjustments. I think it is the simplest and most cost effective fix on the market. It's kind of funny how different the two bikes are, considering they have the same frame geometry and suspension.

 

[mrkartoom]

I'm currently installing yet another $$CS setup in my forks, they have had more revalves than I would have liked but suspension is something that interests me and they still aren't how I would like them.
I have tried varying shim settings with std parts, flipped checks so both adjusters on top are comp, rebound bleed shim setup, Kreft variant with kreft mid valve and race tech base adjuster and a slight change to the kreft shim settings to suit. Honestly I don't see why all the guys rave about his setup on other forums, to me I had them working better for cheaper with the stock parts. I was expecting more from them for the price (parts only, i do my own work)

I haven't tried removing the blue oring and converting them to open chambers, this to me is a step backwards.

The setup i'm trying this weekend is being supported by Terry Hay at Shock Treatment in Australia, Terry has posted the basic details on KTM talk which is using stock mid valve with a bleed hole, race tech base adjusters and race tech G2r gold valves, check valves removed. I'm excited by this setup, I have previously used Terry before with success and he is very positive this will the best I have tried yet....here's hoping.

I'll be anxious to hear how this setup works for you, so keep us posted. I just recently read through Terry's thread on KTMTalk and he certainly knows his stuff. It's great that he is sharing all the details and helping folks out the way he is.

 

[mrkartoom]

The 1k-2k is out the door not MSRP, ktm dealers that I've been to won't budge much. I bought my son's new 2011 yz450 for $5,000 cash money, I bought my new 09 WR250 Husky for $4,900 cash money. At the time I bought those bikes they were actually more then 2k cheaper then their ktm competition. I do expect to spend about $450 doing springs and re-valve which is a lot less then what many on this thread are paying.

Not sure about the Yammie, but weren't the Red Husky 2Ts always priced much lower anyway since they were a dated platform? Stable, reliable and much loved, but a bit dated compared to the KTM. If I recall correctly the MSRP on those were $1k or more less than the orange bikes, too. Seems there were always deep discounted sales going on to get rid of new leftovers. I was tempted on a WR300 because of the price, $4999 I think, but went with a GG.

 

[Motosportz]

Did another ride with buddy Mike and his new husky yesterday. Was a beautiful day and perfect conditions and got in 60 miles of single and 2 track. I rode it a good bit. I like it. Still not in love with the KTM geometry but those forks worked OK until you got in rocks then they were a workout and kinda scary. He is redoing them this weekend. Will be interesting to feel the results. Bike has a nice motor and clutch.

My 02 CR250 which I revavled myself and the new kid.

Fun day

 

[Motosportz]

Are those truck tire tracks leading into that opening?

yes this is not far off a road and also an area that gets a lot of rock crawlers and 4x4's. Mike is just getting back into riding after riding at a high level for years. We did about 60 miles, medium stuff. He called me this morning to tell me his legs were burning. Takes time to get back in ride shape.

He still had a great time. Here is the egress into that tree from the opposite direction...

 

[Motosportz]

We have lots of Cougars here but I have never seen one and no one has even been attacked here as far as I know. Never makes me nervous except one time when I walked out in the dark at 4am because a friend grossly overestimated his range.

 

[bowser]

hey bowser , where does the 1mm bleed go in the midvalve , i have been chatting with terry too, although i have a good setting with my kreft parts , it would still be good to try terrys settings .
chris

it goes in the rebound side of the valve so the top webs and looks like this (random pic found on google not 4cs mid)

I had to make some minor changes to Terry's suggestions due to parts availability in my area so i'm running a 1.2mm bleed hole, a slightly larger pivot shim on the rebound and 2.5wt motorex oil rather than 5wt.
the forks feel different just pushing the bike around and the rods shoot to the top when bled, can't wait to try them

 

[fletchman45]

hmmmm... wonder why?

Ha ha someone has to be the bigger man here and let things go ....not everyone will always have the same opinion or thoughts as the other guy. Just why one guy likes a person and the next guy may dispise them...its all good...... Anyways my forks seem just fine......

 

[bowser]

Can we keep the thread on track, specifically about the 4CS forks please

 

[Big Timmy]

Hey Bowser, you bet. I have deleted all my former posts on this 4CS thread to make anybody who cared to see me gone happy.

The addition of a stabilizer helps keep the 4CS forks on track.

Off track or not. I'm trying to narrow the gap of what can help.

I'm not sorry about the addition of statements related to adding a damper of one of this quality to the front end of the bike to get to a point of, in my interpretation an improvement of the operation of the 4CS forks. It does make a considerable improvement and whether you think it is a form of off topic dribble or a contribution or not. I'm all over the 4CS issue.

My approach may be different than some of the posts and smart ass one liners comments that are not contributory in any way either. I've had to sift through it myself. About half of it isn't contribution at all.

My short journey into this issue has had a few rough roads and jumps in it from all the other off topic dribble I've had to bump and slam my way through too.

Some people who weigh 170 to 180 lbs can get on anything and ride it with out doing anything to a clicker. I'm not one of those people. So as some would probably like to suggest I should lose weight as a first priority or get banned or stop posting altogether because so and so could beat me riding a washing machine? How is that contribution. And this isn't directed at you Bowser. It isn't directed at anybody.

I know its just a bunch of kidding around. I do it too. But where I come from and having all older brothers, If you talk S#!t, you may get bit, especially to people you don't really know. Just through conversations on here about many subjects. Including the 4CS forks, I know some people, even way better now. I am glad for that, even if I had respect for their vast knowledge its nonexistent now. Yet have never met them, that's what a forum is. Some ribbing takes place. Some education takes place. I have a passion to learn but their is always the Class Clown and the class Smart Alec.

Just trying to explain in my own way what the forks are doing as descriptive as possible for the type of riding I'm actually doing. For all types of riders who have the 4CS forks, so they could possibly relate to. Since visual aid is a little more difficult, I have been thinking all along that maybe explaining in my own way that that would help or I would get a relatable solution or suggestion.

Wrong. There is very little actual shared information here to be had. Just people who think they are a King and we are their disciples and they all have their brown nosed minions. Try as we might to even support them as they expect us to do and they still treat you like a piece of S#!t and are condescending and patronizing as well.

Nope, just another non contributory story about how everything I got is the best or mine or my kids brand of forks work best right out of the box and how much these 4CS forks sucks and the KTM Factory should fix them for all of us and maybe get rid of an elephant crapping out another set, Ha Ha, etc. etc.

I'm as damned frustrated as you are. I've taken my concerns to many other places and made many phone calls to dishonest companies just like some of the owners and dishonest companies on here. Who flat treat you the same way and want to sell you some snake oil, shock bladders, etc. over rated snake oil. IMHO.

The bottom line is. Lets cut the crap. I'm game to have them reworked. I just don't want them sitting in my box somewhere for a month and a half.

Simple solutions, such as suggesting who can do the forks with out a total reconfiguration back to old technology. Or having a first time solution where they weren't redone 3 more times after that first joke of an attempt to solve the minor shortcomings. With "custom made adaptors" or a high dollar "Kit" and holes drilled into parts rendering them useless and unreturned components that came out of the forks. No build sheet or paper work, upside down inside out or assbackwards stickers etc. That still didn't work any better than their last old bike. Whatever brand it was or color. How is that a contribution to this 4CS fork solution ?

Suggestions telling us you should go to wherever and try this new brand of bike so and so has. Nothing personal but that is just as much non contributory BS. as some may think my posts are.

This is a forum for discussion on many interconnected relatable subjects with many post and authors. it shouldn't be so complicated along the way.

I mentioned going to "Stillwell" who is in AZ like me, several days back and get comments as to him being a rip off and charging too much and not capable or deserving of any credit for working with the forks and sending them back with the adjusters still functional as intended. That has me seriously reconsidering that option. Just got an email my rifle case to ship them in. I bought on ebay is on its way and has shipped. That's talking about the 4CS. I don't want to send them off at all, if I could help it or someone on here could help me.

Yesterday I bought the socket to open them up myself if only to go to maybe a heavier set of Racetech springs on ebay, I have an unused motion pro oil depth gauge and syringe for adding or lowering the oil level. I may go to a .50KG instead of the .48KG according to the RaceTech spring calculator. I have a set of mini bleeders on the way here. The .48 springs in the forks now. Which were the ones recommended for me for my type of riding and weight seemed at the time to me of just purchasing and my specifying that rate to be light. My other bike has a .52KG spring from the same spring calculator in nearly the same fork and that bike is within 10 lbs or so of the new 15 FE501.

Others spring rates are all over the place on others bikes some of which are riders that weigh more than 30 or 40 pounds less than me. I'm all ears on any other suggestions. That's talking about the 4CS.

I only try to answer a question asked to me as direct as I can. If I was facing some of the members on here, I'm sure they would have a puzzled look on their face if I tried to do that. So I go on and explain further. Some people already know it all so they just quit listening all together. I can show you but that's not possible here.

I should maybe just send them off and not say a word about it. or who they go to or what was actually done and what issues I had problems with were resolved. Like many have done. so much as " I got them back today and a day later they post they are great, like pillows and clouds. A month later they may be having them redone again "Bye Bye". I learned a lot from that.

Notice I said "may be". Not the "The fact is I believe," and that's nothing personal either.

I will sift through the crap, only "watch" this thread another few weeks maybe and "The fact is I believe" the forks are going "Bye Bye" to who? Who cares.

The rest of the a-holes can go pound salt. Those that could help, and have and can conduct themselves in a helpful manner, many thanks.

Instead of a few thinking there S#!t don't stink and can't stop from being a smart ass.

There are a few noteworthy members and they were willing to respond in a professional manner like fletch and reveille. Thanks.

I'm out, I got a few things to do to the 501, a rear sprocket change to a 48 tooth and tap my handle bar ends for some inserts and a new pair of my favorite grips and G2 throttle tube. I got some different hand guards to mount I had laying around. "Sorry for the off topic dribble". "NOT EVEN CLOSE"

 

[fletchman45]

Off topic or not I think it is fine . One liners irratate me as wel . Specifically from one person in particular. At the end of the day it is the person who owns a business that must be more professional and mature then the next guy. I return all calls and emails even from homeowners that u can't stand. And if I really don't like them I let them know face to fac . And if I don't want to do business with them anymore I steer them to another contractor.... I'm with you and freedom of speech is what it is....OK I need to go do some more 4cs testing my bike is loaded. Looking for orange targets.. . .

 

[john01]

I wonder if forks from a 2012 Husky TC250 would fit on a 2015 KTM 350CXF?

 

[fletchman45]

I am told the

I wonder if forks from a 2012 Husky TC250 would fit on a 2015 KTM 350CXF?

48 mm kayaba fork slides right in the triple clamp.....but I don't know my standard revalved 4cs feels every bit as good and I think a tish better then my revalved kayaba's. You could try it for the heck of it but I suspect you won't be any better off....4cs adjusters on top is nice... I just havnt had to touch em.....

 

[john01]

Who did yours flecthman? I wore my fingers down trying to adjust the stock set up.

 

[Norman Foley]

Who did yours flecthman? I wore my fingers down trying to adjust the stock set up.

Hall's... before he picked it up.