All 2st About the Mikuni/Keihin swap:

[Johnnymannen]

EEM needle

Yesterday i was out trying another needle again on my WR 300 with the Keihin PWK. Earlier i had used the EEL needle with good results. I had it in 2nd clip from the top and we hav about 15-20 degrees Celsius now at sea level. Now i have tried the EEM needle and it worked very good too. This time i had it in 3rd clip from the top. i don´t think it can be any cleaner and smoother than this, but still very strong and linear on power. As soon as i open the throttle slightly it runs clean but doesn´t bog. Very good for clean running in this temperatures!

Johnny:sweden:

 

[Rob578]

Has anyone tried an EEK?

 

[Johnnymannen]

Has anyone tried an EEK?

Not me anyway, but that should work too, especially at a little lower temps. it has the same taper as EEL and EEM, but a little richer up to 1/8 throttle. I should try it in 2nd clip from the top at your temp and elevation.

Johnny

 

[hrc630]

I have a EEK in stock, i will try it this week.
I think this needle can boost the very buttom end a little compared to the EEL, but for now the best needle for me was the EEL. In stock form in the 2nd clip and with my little mod in the 3nd clip. On my bike, the EEL needle + Power Now+ feel like i have a EFI engine !!!

The 300 motor is just incredible when properly tuned.

 

[Johnnymannen]

I tried the EEM in 4th clip yesterday, and it felt really strong from the bottom, but softer on top. Slightly more bludder, very linear, strong in the middle. I would like to have a Powernow, but can´t get it here in sweden unfortunately. After checking the plug i confirmed it was rich as the plug was dark grey in the middle, so it´s back to the EEL in 2nd clip!

Johnny:sweden:

 

[schrode]

so the bike is running good. i think it's pretty much there.
'08 wr 250
3000-5500 feet
75 degrees more or less
gnarly pipe w/stock can
38 pilot
4th clip on red needle
170 main
nice and crisp w/good color on the plug.

 

[Scootskipper]

I need to know how to set the float level on my PWK. I thought I had my bike about sorted out but learned today that it is far from right. It recently started flooding badly. Today, It quit on the trail and I had an awful time getting it restarted. Just holding it wot and kicking it forever! After loading it on the truck, I noticed that it was peeing a stream out under the bike. I cut the fuel off and it quit after a bit. I don't know what has happened, but I'll try to address it tomorrow.

 

[motosapiens]

I need to know how to set the float level on my PWK. I thought I had my bike about sorted out but learned today that it is far from right. It recently started flooding badly. Today, It quit on the trail and I had an awful time getting it restarted. Just holding it wot and kicking it forever! After loading it on the truck, I noticed that it was peeing a stream out under the bike. I cut the fuel off and it quit after a bit. I don't know what has happened, but I'll try to address it tomorrow.

If it happened suddenly, it might be stuck or obstructed by dirt and might just need to be cleaned.

http://www.trialscentral.com/forums/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=6019 has some pix of how to check and adjust float level. it's pretty much the same for all carbs that i've seen.

 

[motosapiens]

I tried the EEM in 4th clip yesterday, and it felt really strong from the bottom, but softer on top. Slightly more bludder, very linear, strong in the middle. I would like to have a Powernow, but can´t get it here in sweden unfortunately. After checking the plug i confirmed it was rich as the plug was dark grey in the middle, so it´s back to the EEL in 2nd clip!

Johnny:sweden:

is there some method to your madness? EEL and EEM are pretty close, so if one runs well in the 2nd clip, i can guarantee you the other will be too rich in the 4th clip. I don't really understand why you would try the EEM in 4th clip rather than in 2nd.

I've found that the difference in starting diameter pretty much only affects the first 1/8 of throttle and starting (that i can feel).

 

[Johnnymannen]

is there some method to your madness? EEL and EEM are pretty close, so if one runs well in the 2nd clip, i can guarantee you the other will be too rich in the 4th clip. I don't really understand why you would try the EEM in 4th clip rather than in 2nd.

I've found that the difference in starting diameter pretty much only affects the first 1/8 of throttle and starting (that i can feel).

I just want to try and learn instead of guessing. I want to KNOW how a different taper or diameter affects my bike. I like to compare. That´s it.
Madness!

Johnny

 

[bigcahunak]

Finally, got my pwk from kelly. The swap was easy enough. turned the idle screw in alittle, and bike started right away. After a day (very hot and humid) of tweeking and testing, I ended up with Pilot 42@ 1.5 turns, JD red #1 needle and 165 main. I didnt have 168 on hand which would probably be better. Once its cooler I'm sure 170 would find its way in there.
At the moment the JD red needle works ok, and again, once weather gets a little colder I bet it would work better at slot #2. However, I'm interested in testing that EEL needle you all talk about as I dont like running a needle at slot #1.
Can anyone direct or link to the EEL real number? Whats written on the needle itself? would a KTM dealer stock it?
Thanks.

 

[bigcahunak]

N427-48eel
?

 

[MOTORHEAD]

EEL is what will be on the needle. KTM may have a similar needle, but you'll have to break down their code and match it to the Keihin code. Same with any other OEM Keihin needle.

 

[Johnnymannen]

Finally, got my pwk from kelly. The swap was easy enough. turned the idle screw in alittle, and bike started right away. After a day (very hot and humid) of tweeking and testing, I ended up with Pilot 42@ 1.5 turns, JD red #1 needle and 165 main. I didnt have 168 on hand which would probably be better. Once its cooler I'm sure 170 would find its way in there.
At the moment the JD red needle works ok, and again, once weather gets a little colder I bet it would work better at slot #2. However, I'm interested in testing that EEL needle you all talk about as I dont like running a needle at slot #1.
Can anyone direct or link to the EEL real number? Whats written on the needle itself? would a KTM dealer stock it?
Thanks.

Hello! You will get a slightly leaner running at very light throttleopening with the EEL needle in second clip compared to the red JD needle in first clip. You will also get a little bigger powerhit with the EEL when you open up the throttle. The red JD is a little smoother and gives a little better overrev, but a little less power at low revs. That´s my own conclusion.
We have around 15-25 degrees Celsius here and i live at sealevel and i use a 40 pilot1,5 turns out, JD red in 1st clip for the woods and EEL in 2nd on the street when i go Supermoto. I have a 175 main and it runs perfect with that and the JD needle. I could use a bigger main with the EEL.

Johnny

 

[bigcahunak]

Thank you both.
I figured the JD would work better for offroad, which is only what I do, so I guess I'll stay with it. I'm not looking for more power - only smooth operation. Today was super hot (around 34 celsius) and humid (75%) and I was riding at around 500'-1000'. This isnt my normal riding weather. I knew it wont be a good day for jetting, but I had to ride some... I guess I have all I need for better weather jetting.

 

[motosapiens]

I just want to try and learn instead of guessing. I want to KNOW how a different taper or diameter affects my bike. I like to compare. That´s it.
Madness!

it doesn't seem you would learn much from changing the starting diameter AND the clip position at the same time, especially when you can guarantee that at least one of the clip positions is non-optimal. I would have tried them in the same clip position to see if i could tell a difference just in the diameter. or try the same needle in 2 different clip positions. changing clip posistion AND diameter would leave you wondering which change was responsible for any difference you feel, wouldn't it?

 

[PC.]

I dont like the CEK or CEL on the 300 w/ the pro circuit exhaust.
I rode Sat w/ the CEL #2 clip and (I think) a 45pj. The bike would blubber and stumble real bad until about 3/8 throttle and then it would rip my arms off when it got past the stumble and onto the main.

I thought it felt like a rich condition, but leaning out the air screw made it worse and caused a lean surge. Going richer helped, but the power was very soft and made the transition into the powerband very abrupt. So far, I've liked the stock needle from this 1999 Honda 250R carb the best (DDK, I think!?).

I love sharp, responsive power off idle and a seamless transition into the mid. Do any of you needle connoisseur's have a recommendation? I want something lean and aggressive all the way up the needle so when it gets onto the pipe it's not like a light switch.

 

[Johnnymannen]

I dont like the CEK or CEL on the 300 w/ the pro circuit exhaust.
I rode Sat w/ the CEL #2 clip and (I think) a 45pj. The bike would blubber and stumble real bad until about 3/8 throttle and then it would rip my arms off when it got past the stumble and onto the main.

I thought it felt like a rich condition, but leaning out the air screw made it worse and caused a lean surge. Going richer helped, but the power was very soft and made the transition into the powerband very abrupt. So far, I've liked the stock needle from this 1999 Honda 250R carb the best (DDK, I think!?).

I love sharp, responsive power off idle and a seamless transition into the mid. Do any of you needle connoisseur's have a recommendation? I want something lean and aggressive all the way up the needle so when it gets onto the pipe it's not like a light switch.

Hello PC! The EEL is much better! It´s even stronger from the bottom then the red JD. I think you can use a 180 main if you are at temps around 25celsius as the needle is thicker at the tip then the JD. Use it in second slot! More linear powercurve then the JD is my experience.

Johnny

 

[PC.]

Thanks. I had a feeling you would recommend that needle.
I'll try to pick one up by the weekend and see how it works.

 

[Johnnymannen]

it doesn't seem you would learn much from changing the starting diameter AND the clip position at the same time, especially when you can guarantee that at least one of the clip positions is non-optimal. I would have tried them in the same clip position to see if i could tell a difference just in the diameter. or try the same needle in 2 different clip positions. changing clip posistion AND diameter would leave you wondering which change was responsible for any difference you feel, wouldn't it?

I know that. But sometimes when you swap needles regularly and test it´s easy to THINK that it´s an improvement even that it isn´t. I make a change like this just to confirm for myself that my feelings are right. Just to make the change in performance more obvious for myself. I´m not such a lucky man as HRC 630 to have access to a dyno, even though i have been very fortunate to get needles that isn´t easy to come over here in sweden! Anyway, i got my feelings quite right when the different needles where evaluated on the dyno, so that´s always something.

Johnny