• Hi everyone,

    As you all know, Coffee (Dean) passed away a couple of years ago. I am Dean's ex-wife's husband and happen to have spent my career in tech. Over the years, I occasionally helped Dean with various tech issues.

    When he passed, I worked with his kids to gather the necessary credentials to keep this site running. Since then (and for however long they worked with Coffee), Woodschick and Dirtdame have been maintaining the site and covering the costs. Without their hard work and financial support, CafeHusky would have been lost.

    Over the past couple of weeks, I’ve been working to migrate the site to a free cloud compute instance so that Woodschick and Dirtdame no longer have to fund it. At the same time, I’ve updated the site to a current version of XenForo (the discussion software it runs on). The previous version was outdated and no longer supported.

    Unfortunately, the new software version doesn’t support importing the old site’s styles, so for now, you’ll see the XenForo default style. This may change over time.

    Coffee didn’t document the work he did on the site, so I’ve been digging through the old setup to understand how everything was running. There may still be things I’ve missed. One known issue is that email functionality is not yet working on the new site, but I hope to resolve this over time.

    Thanks for your patience and support!

Booster Plug

kjackbrown said:
We recently started looking at the evap canister system (actually more like the purge valve) and are pretty sure that it is causing the issues we have seen.
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Australian bikes do not have the evap canister system but my bike suffers from the aforementioned symptoms. The unused plug is tied above the cylinder head on my bike. I'm not sure whether the purge solenoid driver in the ECM would be disabled though? Does it log a fault code if the purge solenoid is disconnected?
 
Idle issue we saw is what lead us to questioning the canisters functionality...and after the plugging/removal of the canister the issue has yet to return. I am interested to see if it takes care of Coffees observations as well so that is why I mentioned it here.

As for the canister itself and how it works with the TR's evap system...when that valve opens up (still not sure if it is a N/O or N/C valve) the throttle body is being given access to the tanks vapors & pressure, as well as the atmosphere via that port you just mentioned. I know my atmosphere line was not plugged as I looked through it, however I did not try blowing through the canister to see if anything was clogged. I guess I could check that out tonight when I get home.
 
AUS_TR650 said:
Australian bikes do not have the evap canister system but my bike suffers from the aforementioned symptoms. The unused plug is tied above the cylinder head on my bike. I'm not sure whether the purge solenoid driver in the ECM would be disabled though? Does it log a fault code if the purge solenoid is disconnected?
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HighFive and several other have been running with their canisters removed for a long time now without any codes.

Has yours been MOSSed yet?
 
kjackbrown said:
Hey Coffee, do you still have your evap can installed? If so and you want to keep it for whatever reason, try plugging off the line between the valve and canister and see if that keeps the bike from exhibiting the things you have noticed.
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Mine is bone stock, except for a skid plate and a new rear tire tube. Well that and fuel added and an oil change.

I'll try playing around with the evap system when I get a chance.
 
Right on...I'm not too far from you (Fresno) and it looks like your going to have much better "playing around" weather than I am this weekend (110° here :eek:). I had planned on toying with the bike this weekend but now I think I am not going to leave the house AT ALL****************************************
 
There is, of course, the possibility that the same symptoms can occur due to multiple different causes. Perhaps the temperature sensor has some effect on the fuel map causing some problems. Separately, perhaps the evap system is causing problems resulting is similar symptoms. Perhaps some vacuum leak is the root cause of someone else's problems specific to that bike. Just saying that the symptoms of stumbling could be caused by a multitude of separate things, or even a combination of things.
 
kjackbrown said:
This is a portion of the conversations regarding this discovery…

“I can tell you this, when the EVAP canister / carbon canister solenoid cycles, it makes the bike act strange when the bike is good and warm/hot, and the fuel in the tank is creating vapor/pressure. Since my bike doesn't have the idle issue consistently, can someone try pinching the line runs from the throttle body to the can? It's the nipple on the top/front of can. I've got mine disconnected from the can and plugged for now.

I had so much pressure built up at one point.....a lot of idling.....when I opened the tank it pissed a ton of pressure off. When it cycles the solenoid with this much pressure the AFR goes from 14.7 to 10.4 and stalls the bike......and this was in a completely stock form.”

...and soon after...

“I had a customer come by the office with this bike enquiring about a Power Commander. His TR is bone stock up to this point. He also mentioned excessive pressure relief when opening his fuel tank. He did not mention high idle problems, but when I had him start it up and I opened the throttle and tried to hold it steady at about 3000 RPM, the IAC would constantly open and close while the throttle was held steady as a rock. The engine would surge back and forth from 3000-4000 RPM.”

Hey Coffee, do you still have your evap can installed? If so and you want to keep it for whatever reason, try plugging off the line between the valve and canister and see if that keeps the bike from exhibiting the things you have noticed.
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I've been thinking about this, would removing the gas cap do the same thing as what is being suggested?

I really have not taken a close look at the evap can on my bike, and at the moment am reluctant to tear into it.
 
Usually the valve for the canister system is closed until the engine is warmed up I think. If this is true, then, in theory, you should be able to simply unplug the harness connector to the purge valve under the frame and the system should remain closed and unused.
 
I was looking at the evap diagram and hose routing on the bike and I could very easily be wrong on my assumptions that the purge valve is normally closed. It's definitely not routed the way I expected, so it could very well be normally open in this setup and the ecu closes it. The intent is to allow vapor from the fuel tank to get to the canister when the bike is just sitting, not in use. It appears the purge valve is between the fuel tank and the canister, so I would think this valve should be open when the bike is off. But, this really doesn't seem like the way I'm used to seeing an evap system setup, so it's confusing me.

I would suggest the same as previous post that testing would most easily be accomplished by pinching the hose that is routed from the canister to the throttle body/intake. It appears on my bike to be the slightly smaller diameter hose on the top of the canister, going backwards from the canister......I think. A clothespin could potentially have enough force to do this, or maybe a paperclip.
 
Here's an explanation of an evap system the way I know it:

A typical system consists of a small canister full of charcoal, valves, hoses, vents in the fuel lines and a sealed fuel tank cap. When fuel evaporates inside the gas tank, the excess vapors are transferred to the charcoal canister. They're stored there until they can safely be transferred back to the engine to be burned with the normal air-fuel mixture.

When that's ready to happen, a valve creates a vacuum that draws the vapors into the engine. Fresh air is also drawn in through the vents and valves to mix with the vapors for better combustion. These systems can be controlled mechanically, or like on most on newer cars, through the engine's computer. The computer tells the valves when to purge the canister of vapors. This typically happens when the car is in motion, rather than at idle. It's just one example of some of the behind-the-scenes technology that you'll likely never see or feel.
Click to expand...

The system on the husky puts the purge valve in the wrong spot for what I'm used to. This confuses me and I definitely don't understand why it's like that. It seems like the husky is pulling from the canister all the time. With the vent at the bottom of the canister it would seem this would cause a constant small vacuum leak, which, I believe, could cause a lean condition? Usually you want the canister vacuum to be blocked until not at idle. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong here, cause I'd like to understand this.
 
Okay, I looked at the parts diagrams from the parts pdf and that diagram makes sense. So, I looked at the bike again with better light, and the bike hoses are routed exactly like the parts diagram, and is consistent with my original thoughts. The diagram sticker that is on the front fork of the bike makes no sense to me and should be ignored if you ask me. The purge valve is between the throttle body and the canister. The slightly larger diameter hose that initially goes forward from the canister into the radiator, then makes a u-turn and gets connected to the purge valve. Pinching this hose, or likely disconnecting the connector of the purge valve, should make it so the system is effectively disabled.
 
kjackbrown, when you did your canisterectomy, did you happen to notice if the tube that goes from the throttle body to the purge valve was loose in any way at the connections? Looking at this tube, it seems like a harder plastic material, though I couldn't actually get in the space to feel it. I didn't see any clamps on the connections of this tube, and depending on several factors, maybe the connections leak? Also, the purge valve uses a right angle union, and again since I cannot get in there sufficiently, was wondering if this union is securely air tight between the union and the purge valve?
 
If the problem is the cannister, why don't all bikes have that problem? My bike has never skipped a beat, including + 100 degree weather.
 
Kawagumby said:
If the problem is the cannister, why don't all bikes have that problem? My bike has never skipped a beat, including + 100 degree weather.
Click to expand...

Hmm, good point. No stumbling or hiccups on your bike? What state are you in? Different gas? What altitude do you ride? Have you had Moss update? Do you follow the 3 minute rule?
 
I ride at about 1000-1200' above sea level mostly. Never had a MOSS update - the bike sold before mine had the "stumbles" but mine didn't (I bought in late December). I don't know if I let my bike run for a full 3 minutes before I ride, but I do let it warm up - probably more like at least two minutes - but I haven't timed it. I'm in northern ca (Hollister, about 40 miles south of San Jose) and use shell premium gas.
 
Kawagumby said:
I ride at about 1000-1200' above sea level mostly. Never had a MOSS update - the bike sold before mine had the "stumbles" but mine didn't (I bought in late December). I don't know if I let my bike run for a full 3 minutes before I ride, but I do let it warm up - probably more like at least two minutes - but I haven't timed it. I'm in northern ca (Hollister, about 40 miles south of San Jose) and use shell premium gas.
Click to expand...

That could be why. Mine stumbles, but not if I let it idle for 2-3 minutes upon start-up, without touching the throttle. I'm at sea level, use premium, and no Moss update, purchased in January.
 
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