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Hi everyone,
As you all know, Coffee (Dean) passed away a couple of years ago. I am Dean's ex-wife's husband and happen to have spent my career in tech. Over the years, I occasionally helped Dean with various tech issues.
When he passed, I worked with his kids to gather the necessary credentials to keep this site running. Since then (and for however long they worked with Coffee), Woodschick and Dirtdame have been maintaining the site and covering the costs. Without their hard work and financial support, CafeHusky would have been lost.
Over the past couple of weeks, I’ve been working to migrate the site to a free cloud compute instance so that Woodschick and Dirtdame no longer have to fund it. At the same time, I’ve updated the site to a current version of XenForo (the discussion software it runs on). The previous version was outdated and no longer supported.
Unfortunately, the new software version doesn’t support importing the old site’s styles, so for now, you’ll see the XenForo default style. This may change over time.
Coffee didn’t document the work he did on the site, so I’ve been digging through the old setup to understand how everything was running. There may still be things I’ve missed. One known issue is that email functionality is not yet working on the new site, but I hope to resolve this over time.
Thanks for your patience and support!
Counter shaft splines
- Thread starter tim larson
- Start date
EricV
Husqvarna
AA Class
Same inquiry as SAHusky- looking to find out where you guys order your sprockets (mine is a 630.)
It's sounding like the Supersprox fit the most snug, followed by Ironman. I've called ZipTy and they're supposed to get back to me (they're having a hard time figuring out if the one they have fits the 630.) That's the thing- whoever I call doesn't seem to know what will fit.
I have, unfortunately, more spline/sprocket slop...so wanting to get what may fit the most snug (granting that anything that clears the outer splines- on the outside of the C-clip- will be looser once in position on the worn splines.)
Thanks!
EDIT: I heard back from ZipTy and they're sending me an Ironman. Quite spendy for a cs sprocket, but I'll give it a shot.
It's sounding like the Supersprox fit the most snug, followed by Ironman. I've called ZipTy and they're supposed to get back to me (they're having a hard time figuring out if the one they have fits the 630.) That's the thing- whoever I call doesn't seem to know what will fit.
I have, unfortunately, more spline/sprocket slop...so wanting to get what may fit the most snug (granting that anything that clears the outer splines- on the outside of the C-clip- will be looser once in position on the worn splines.)
Thanks!
EDIT: I heard back from ZipTy and they're sending me an Ironman. Quite spendy for a cs sprocket, but I'll give it a shot.
EricV
Husqvarna
AA Class
Hi Gang-
Just thought I'd throw this all out here- it's a "take from it what you will" kind of thing. These are my splines at around 18K miles on the bike. Looks like fairly minimal wear but, trust me, there's some significant slop when the sprocket is fully in position. You'll see the gap in one of the pics.
That gap is, of course, the product of two things. One is wear on the sprocket "teeth"/splines (thankfully) and then there's the obvious wear on the CS itself. This wear, I am convinced, is to a limited extent the product of what we call "hammering" (the sudden "on and off" of power delivery) but- IMO- it's more the product of oscillation. You can see the long "U" shaped wear areas.
The sprocket moves on the shaft in all directions- rotational, and also to and fro (away from and against the case, so along the shaft, albeit it extremely short travel but clear.) I think anything from idling to riding is creating this oscillation/wear, morre than hammering.
When I installed the Ironman last night I used a feeler gauge to measure the space between the c-clip and the sprocket (with shaft kept outwards- taking up that slight to and fro play of the shaft itself inside the casing- and with sprocket flat against case.) That gap was .005. Though not the best material (by Far) I used a piece of "plasticky" catalog paper as I didn't have any other material measuring .004. The rationale here is that I don't want .005 or .006 as I don't want the sprocket riding hard against the case. The rationale above all is that I thought I'd try this to minimize as much as I can the to and fro oscillation/rub.
Yes, I understand that any gains may be negligible, but thought it worth a shot. Here are some pics:
Just thought I'd throw this all out here- it's a "take from it what you will" kind of thing. These are my splines at around 18K miles on the bike. Looks like fairly minimal wear but, trust me, there's some significant slop when the sprocket is fully in position. You'll see the gap in one of the pics.
That gap is, of course, the product of two things. One is wear on the sprocket "teeth"/splines (thankfully) and then there's the obvious wear on the CS itself. This wear, I am convinced, is to a limited extent the product of what we call "hammering" (the sudden "on and off" of power delivery) but- IMO- it's more the product of oscillation. You can see the long "U" shaped wear areas.
The sprocket moves on the shaft in all directions- rotational, and also to and fro (away from and against the case, so along the shaft, albeit it extremely short travel but clear.) I think anything from idling to riding is creating this oscillation/wear, morre than hammering.
When I installed the Ironman last night I used a feeler gauge to measure the space between the c-clip and the sprocket (with shaft kept outwards- taking up that slight to and fro play of the shaft itself inside the casing- and with sprocket flat against case.) That gap was .005. Though not the best material (by Far) I used a piece of "plasticky" catalog paper as I didn't have any other material measuring .004. The rationale here is that I don't want .005 or .006 as I don't want the sprocket riding hard against the case. The rationale above all is that I thought I'd try this to minimize as much as I can the to and fro oscillation/rub.
Yes, I understand that any gains may be negligible, but thought it worth a shot. Here are some pics:
robertaccio
Husqvarna
Pro Class
also a little bit of lube or at least anti corrosion treatment can help as well, that shaft looks very dry and has lots of oxide powder and surface corrosion.
And everyone thought the early Husky's had a bad design on the counter shaft sealing. They always leaked a little but just enough to lube the splines on the shaft.
This kept the shaft from rusting leading to excessive wear.
From the pics that's dryer than a popcorn fart, of-course it's going to wear. It doesn't matter what you use drain oil,wd-40,chain lube.lard,surf board wax. just keep it wet,
Spline wear is more important to watch for than tooth wear. Don't just wait until teeth are gone splines go faster.
Most gearbox shafts have and need some float don't bind it up with shimming, makes it harder to get lube into splines when lubing them.
Just lay bike on it's side pour some oil on and around it.
Later George
This kept the shaft from rusting leading to excessive wear.
From the pics that's dryer than a popcorn fart, of-course it's going to wear. It doesn't matter what you use drain oil,wd-40,chain lube.lard,surf board wax. just keep it wet,
Spline wear is more important to watch for than tooth wear. Don't just wait until teeth are gone splines go faster.
Most gearbox shafts have and need some float don't bind it up with shimming, makes it harder to get lube into splines when lubing them.
Just lay bike on it's side pour some oil on and around it.
Later George
EricV
Husqvarna
AA Class
Robertaccio- Yes- I agree. I used a a bit of heavy grease when re-fitting- always have. Now some are of the opinion that this only serves to make a grinding paste, but I'm in the camp that feels it's best to use it as a cushion, and also (hopefully, to prevent ingress of grit. So yes, I do use it, but the stuff had long worn off and away.
Rotax- Yes, the one that I removed was a Husqvarna sprocket. I have used two of those in my time with the 630, and have also used JT and DirtTricks (Ironman), and one other brand I not at the moment recall. Over time time it's been theorized (rightly, I think) that different brands have different hardnesses...the logic being that we'd prefer the sprocket to take most of the wear and not the shaft. It appears that the Husqvarna one did wear down considerably...it seems to have taken most of the wear over this last interval. I went w/ the Ironman, this time, as I want as snug of a fit as possible (and it was- had to tap it on to get it past the unworn ends of the spline, and then from there I of course have rotational play.)
George. Thanks, as always, for your contributions. I agree that there should be some play, and I still have some. I also agree that keeping it all wet is the right idea. In this case I was surprised that all of the grease I used had gone, completely.
Overall: On the one hand I'm lucky that mine looks somewhat decent at 18K miles. On the other hand we all know that once there's significant wear it only accelerates as time goes on, more rapidly. Like the rest of us I'll do what I can to stretch it out. Hate feeling like you have this ticking issue under your a*s but, then again, ALL parts on a bike are wearing (some more than others, of course) as we ride and need eventual replacement. Especially on a dirt bike.
Rotax- Yes, the one that I removed was a Husqvarna sprocket. I have used two of those in my time with the 630, and have also used JT and DirtTricks (Ironman), and one other brand I not at the moment recall. Over time time it's been theorized (rightly, I think) that different brands have different hardnesses...the logic being that we'd prefer the sprocket to take most of the wear and not the shaft. It appears that the Husqvarna one did wear down considerably...it seems to have taken most of the wear over this last interval. I went w/ the Ironman, this time, as I want as snug of a fit as possible (and it was- had to tap it on to get it past the unworn ends of the spline, and then from there I of course have rotational play.)
George. Thanks, as always, for your contributions. I agree that there should be some play, and I still have some. I also agree that keeping it all wet is the right idea. In this case I was surprised that all of the grease I used had gone, completely.
Overall: On the one hand I'm lucky that mine looks somewhat decent at 18K miles. On the other hand we all know that once there's significant wear it only accelerates as time goes on, more rapidly. Like the rest of us I'll do what I can to stretch it out. Hate feeling like you have this ticking issue under your a*s but, then again, ALL parts on a bike are wearing (some more than others, of course) as we ride and need eventual replacement. Especially on a dirt bike.
Rotax_655
Husqvarna
AA Class
Rotax_655
Husqvarna
AA Class
Conclusions?
Your wear is minimal and can withstand many other miles
This can decrease the wear and tear if applied periodically
http://arexons.it/en/products/industrial-maintenance/lubricants/an251-copper-anti-seizing/
and if in the end it will almost be thrown as often happens in many twin africa and other motorbikes just find a good operator with numerical control machines
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=202&v=252A3O6Ur8U
motranqui
Husqvarna
AA Class
Rotax / Eric, as you can see in this thread (if I Understood correctly, as I still waiting for Robertaccio kind answer) some guys think that add silicone to the splines is good idea. Look:
http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/te-310-conter-sprocket-slack-video.88731/
http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/te-310-conter-sprocket-slack-video.88731/
Rotax_655
Husqvarna
AA Class
it does not seem to me the best product to put it on the tree. it has no anti-wear characteristics and resistance to "extreme pressures"
kirbybikes
Husqvarna
AA Class
http://sds.loctite.com/us/content_data/339172_LT5338_Shaft_Repair_Service_Manual_F_LR881364.pdf Pages 12 and 13
I have used the Loctite Molypaste with great success on electric power steering pumps. The spline on a $10k motor would be stripped out within a year until we started using this product. I found it when looking for a drive spline lube for my ST 1300 (Pan European
) and found it commonly recommended on BMW splines also. Last time I had my sprocket off I used this on assembly. I will be taking the sprocket off shortly to replace it and will report back.
I have used the Loctite Molypaste with great success on electric power steering pumps. The spline on a $10k motor would be stripped out within a year until we started using this product. I found it when looking for a drive spline lube for my ST 1300 (Pan European
) and found it commonly recommended on BMW splines also. Last time I had my sprocket off I used this on assembly. I will be taking the sprocket off shortly to replace it and will report back.
motranqui
Husqvarna
AA Class
It seems, so far, the best solution. Althoug, I suposse, loctite 660 will not "weld" the shaft to the sprocket, as sooner or later we have to replace the sprocket. Have you check it?
Thank you
Rotax_655
Husqvarna
AA Class
sorry but to me the loctite 660 does not seem to me the best solution.
660 loctite is a blocker
to limit wear between the drive shaft and the pinion (for me) it is not suitable
If you like loctite brand
http://www.loctite.co.uk/loctite-4087.htm?nodeid=8802628829185
but better those with copper paste that resist water
Rotax_655
Husqvarna
AA Class
kirbybikes
Husqvarna
AA Class
Moly Paste seems pretty impervious to water. Once on the skin it seems to need some kind of solvent chemical to remove, soap and water doesn't seem to budge it only smears around. I'll have an update and if I remember photos some time this week. Like I mentioned this stuff works saving $10k electric motors from the exact same type of wear we are seeing only it is in a somewhat sealed environment, we have even tried other brands and they don't even come close. I know I sound like a Loctite salesman but I'll find out this week if it may be a solution.