Dirt Bike Test -- TC250 and TXC250

[SanDHusky]

Spent another 2 hours breaking in my TXC 250. After getting a little bolder with the throttle, I agree with raisrx251...The bike is on the lean side and it has a hesitation/bog, down low (feels like when you stomp on your gas pedal in your car and it cuts out then throttles up again).

But again...I only have about 3 hours on it so far....I feel confident that Husky will come out with a fix or someone will come up with some EFI parameters that cure the bog.....

rasrx251, did you richen it up by changing the EFI parameters or did you do something on the throttle body?

As far as brakes, suspension, feel, handling..... Saaaaweeet.

The turning on this thing is unreal....And the light weight makes it shine...I did some trail breaking and cut into some alien trails down by Tecate Mexico today and wow, this bike is going to be a single track killer. It does not tire you out, you point it where you want and go. Uphill, downhill, it pulled just fine, once you got out of the bog zone and up into the midrange a bit...Suspension is on the stiffer side, but feels good for me...right now.

Mitch.

 

[raisrx251]

Yes I am working very hard on a fix. I was going to post up something for new owners of these but here goes. Last Sunday I had the SA out and the hesitation/bog was even more evident. I ended up putting the SA back in but lost some power. I kept thinking of what Dirt Bike said.

We did bring the lap top and Ibeat with us. Unfortunately we have not been able to set the parameters in FB1,2,3. I am thinking I need a newer version of Ibeat which I will have this week. We did start playing with CO settings. At first we were too shy and moved 1 number and would try again. Eventually we got bold and went by 5 numbers. I ended up settling on 110,115,115 The hesitation is gone but I have to tell you there is much more there. I came home feeling really good about the bike. It actually started pulling second gear in places I was in first. The bike has a very low stall point thanks to the Fuel Injection as well. The bike still needs some work on the bottom end pull but I am sure I am going to love this bike.

SanDiego is not that far from Vegas is it? Hint Hint. How about getting a free Power Commander V with autotune for your troubles.. I would love to see what this bike would do with that.


You are right this bike is going to be so good once this is worked out. It is so light in between the trees you can really bring out the two stroke flick through the tight stuff. My forks seem to not be settling into the turns that well but I think it is only oil height.


Lastly didn't Husky have a couple of the TXC's before the magazines had them? They really need a do-better card.

 

[boisedave]

The one thing you Husky die hards should realize [to the extent you don't already] is that there are lots of people [myself included] who tend to attribute some "truth" to the magazine lingo. For most of you, you'd buy a Husky regardless -- you have the knowledge and the intestinal fortitude to get the bike sorted ot. Raisrx251's post above proves my point.

What I think you should realize is not everyone has that same amount of mechanical ability. What they want is a bike they can ride with a minimum of fuss or one with a checklist of stuff to do to get it there. I wouldn't buy a bike that required me to spend $500 on a programmer and software to play with the mixture. Its not that I can't afford it -- I just don't happen to have the time to test and play around to the level that some are. I'm not in the industry -- I just want to ride. I get a limited number of weekends to ride [I put on around 150 hours a year]. I don't want to burn 40 hours "figuring out" the bike. I think most [whether they admit it or not] are in the same boat.

When a test like DB comes out -- it gives me pause. I suspect it does the same to others. If Husky wants to grow its market share it needs to play the game a bit better. Don't get me wrong -- I love the brand. I just would like it to get the credit it deserves.

 

[demi]

mag test, whatever...with Husky not doing there best to have these bikes set up does damage to the general buying public...it seems like the same people buy these bikes and if the goal is to expand, stuff like this is bad. What is going to get these bikes exposed? Good or bad...lots of people still believe everything they read...ugh...my opinion....

 

[john01]

Just a thougt but for us buying public, shouldn't the dealer make sure the bikes are "set up" properly, at least the jetting/FI? I think the suspension is up to the person who will be riding the bike. I just don't see how Husky or anyother manufacture can sell bikes around the word set up for all tems., alt., etc. Now I feel if Husky supplies a bike to a mag. for testing they should set the bike up as close as possible for where it will be tested and make sure the bike is properly broken in. Just my .02.

 

[vntgmx]

Hey I've owned every exotic brand under the sun(TM,Vor,GasGas etc.)so it's not like I'm new to this discussion but I got to tell you basic engine performance is not something anyone should have to do on a 7-8k machine out of the gate.Suspension tuning is one thing but having to buy a tuner and then having to try to sort it out is completely unreasonable and kills the marketability whether you want to admit or not.
The manufactuer is to blame plain and simple and why would the average Joe go buy one when they have so many cookie cutter options that don't suffer from these issues.As the earlier poster mentioned most folks and a large base of the folks that Husky is hoping to appeal too so they may grow their customer base to where they need it in the US market are not looking to wrench but just ride.
No one mines playing with a clicker,sag etc but having to spend their riding days trying to sort out F/I is asking way too much.

 

[gestion01]

I have one friend in this situation, he bought a Te310 this spring and hates it. He's not inclined to ''sort out'' the FI on his bike and he put it up for sale.

 

[hodaka bob]

I agree with you 100% that test mule bikes should go to the magazines broken in and dialed in. That's common sense.

Don't the Big 4 supply mechanics during shoot outs ect? Special prepped bikes change the jetting for the mag ect. They pull the bikes out of a truck not a crate.
Hodaka Bob

 

[raisrx251]

I have to defend a little here. The bike is really really good. It is light, handles like riding a fly and the power is not that far off. Besides the hesitation with the spark arrestor out, you don't notice that the bike is lean. It pulls evenly and it was not until trying to solve the bottom end hesitation with my dealer that we found more hp while richening the top end as well. Now the bike is pulling a gear taller and we are not done.

I also wish that Husky would have had the FI set up before turning the bike over to the press or just not give them one. Truth is the FI is excellent once adjusted for your riding region. I do not think that we will have to purchase software unless you want to, the dealer just needs to have the knowledge to know what to do supplied by Husqvarna. It is not rocket science here. Basically the way the way I think it is going to be is Husky will post out something to the dealers to set the FI and the bike will be ready to go. If you want to alter your settings to give a smoother or harder hit then you can buy the software. If you want to keep it the way it is you just ride the thing.

The hard starting test of the TC in MXA I can't figure out. To me there must have been something wrong there. My TXC kicks so easy and Krieg has reported the same with his TC.

The bottom line is yes we should be able to purchase a bike without these issues. I am glad to have the bike and can see that it is going to do everything I wanted it to. In the next few weeks the FI will be sorted and I will not have anything to complain about. Oh yeah, maybe a bigger tank.

 

[Motosportz]

These are all very good points. Also remember that a lot of bikes these days from any manufacture seem to come lean. JD jetting has made a business on getting the FCR crab right and sold piles of those $100 kits. We are doing some research right here before your eyes and the information to take it from a good running factory bike to a ripping customer bike is an iBeat setting away. not unlike the JD jetting thing. I pick mine up tomorrow and will also add to this discussion. Sounds like a fantastic bike that needs some richer EFI settings. not a huge deal. If your interested in this bike you are now armed with the info. Buy the bike and make sure they bump up the EFI settings and ride. I plan to force a barrett muffler onto this bike and play with the EFI settings and get where i get.

it is unfortunate husky did not send a richened up TXC to the mag. Should have run one in on the street for 600 miles, swapped the tires, maximized the EFI settings and sent that.

My point is i would not shy away from this bike and miss out. A very light EFI 250 with amazing handling sounds good to me. I'm willing to make or have made a EFI setting for that.

 

[HSrider]

I'm following this post because this was one of the bikes I was interested in. There are some good points made but also some that are a little confusing. If I understand EFI correct then it shouldn't need to learn your riding area and if it does there should be a simple process of starting the bike and let it idle or something. Dealer should be able to take care of that before delivery I would think.

Also my main question is how long as Husky had EFI on the TE's? You would think they would have the EFI figured out before releasing it on a brand new light weight 250F that a lot of people are interested in buying.

I guess I don't understand. I'll still continue to follow this thread though.

 

[krieg]

It's obvious there's a lot of people here who don't have even a basic understanding of EFI or how it works. EFI isn't simply sensors sending data to a flawless computer that responds magically and correctly to each and every input. An EFI system is only as good as its basic programming and the maps it has at its disposal within that programming to come up with the proper outputs that ultimately, hopefully, sends the proper fuel mixture down the throttle body.

Some advanced systems are so "smart" they can actually teach themselves (called adaptive learning) to write new maps based on the ambient conditions the system sees on a routine basis. Most, if not all automotive systems are using highly advanced systems that tune themselves to the ambient conditions.

Some more basic systems rely on more simplistic programming that allows the computer to pick from a "hard-coded" batch of maps based on a range of anticipated inputs. The outputs to control fuel mixture may be flawed if the computer chooses the wrong map based on inputs that are out of range because they are not tuned for the ambient conditions they are exposed to.

Computer gurus don't bash me as I realize this is a vastly inferior technical rationale based on limited study of EFI, but I think it is reasonably accurate and illustrates the point that EFI is only as good as the instructions it is given in its programming and the output maps it has to pick from. Also, EFI very definitely, most assuredly, is sensitive to ambient conditions. So, in less complex systems, an EFI package tuned for Italy, may not behave as well when it finds itself on the top of Mt. Rainier in the middle of winter.

Having said all that... it would be neat if someone could educate us as to how complex the algorithms are in the Mikuni EFI being used by Husky. Does it utilize adaptive learning? If so, to what extent can it rewrite maps if at all?

 

[NumberCruncher]

It's obvious there's a lot of people here who don't have even a basic understanding of EFI or how it works. EFI isn't simply sensors sending data to a flawless computer that responds magically and correctly to each and every input. An EFI system is only as good as its basic programming and the maps it has at its disposal within that programming to come up with the proper outputs that ultimately, hopefully, sends the proper fuel mixture down the throttle body.

Some advanced systems are so "smart" they can actually teach themselves (called adaptive learning) to write new maps based on the ambient conditions the system sees on a routine basis. Most, if not all automotive systems are using highly advanced systems that tune themselves to the ambient conditions.

Some more basic systems rely on more simplistic programming that allows the computer to pick from a "hard-coded" batch of maps based on a range of anticipated inputs. The outputs to control fuel mixture may be flawed if the computer chooses the wrong map based on inputs that are out of range because they are not tuned for the ambient conditions they are exposed to.

Computer gurus don't bash me as I realize this is a vastly inferior technical rationale based on limited study of EFI, but I think it is reasonably accurate and illustrates the point that EFI is only as good as the instructions it is given in its programming and the output maps it has to pick from. Also, EFI very definitely, most assuredly, is sensitive to ambient conditions. So, in less complex systems, an EFI package tuned for Italy, may not behave as well when it finds itself on the top of Mt. Rainier in the middle of winter.

Having said all that... it would be neat if someone could educate us as to how complex the algorithms are in the Mikuni EFI being used by Husky. Does it utilize adaptive learning? If so, to what extent can it rewrite maps if at all?

I agree with you that an EFI system needs a baseline from which to operate and that any adjustments to compensate for temperature or elevation will be in response to this standard. I just have to think that if Husky got the baseline set correctly at the factory in Italy, then it should work from sea level to 10,000 feet and from below freezing to 100+ degrees.

Maybe the baseline is for a broken in engine and with time, all the 2010 250's will heal themselves?

NC

 

[krieg]

I agree with you that an EFI system needs a baseline from which to operate and that any adjustments to compensate for temperature or elevation will be in response to this standard. I just have to think that if Husky got the baseline set correctly at the factory in Italy, then it should work from sea level to 10,000 feet and from below freezing to 100+ degrees.

Maybe the baseline is for a broken in engine and with time, all the 2010 250's will heal themselves?

NC

I'm not sure NC, that's why I'm hoping someone way smarter than me can shed some light on the Mikuni system's capabilities. I'm betting that it's pretty basic. But I'm totally ignorant to the facts as far as its sophistication.

 

[NumberCruncher]

I'm not sure NC, that's why I'm hoping someone way smarter than me can shed some light on the Mikuni system's capabilities. I'm betting that it's pretty basic. But I'm totally ignorant to the facts as far as its sophistication.

I probably know less than you and am basing my knowledge on my 2008 TE250 with the Athena kit. It did need some tweaking with the larger cylinder but once that was done, it ran flawlessly everywhere. I guess I am used to cars from the last 20 years where EFI simply worked without tweaking. Sure you can tune your engine for more hp, but at least they run very well stock.

I still intend to pick up a TE250 for 2010 and really don't care if the EFI has to be tweaked to get it just right. I just hope the bike isn't too loud and the gearing will work for the tight trails I ride.

BTW, the pics at the Husky website show the bikes with a skid plate. Are they actually coming with one?

NC

 

[SanDHusky]

Well...I love my TXC 250...I agree that it will get better with more miles on it...I can tell that the motor is getting better and better with each ride....I had to ride it in the dark tonight, just to say I rode it...

I would assume that Zip Ty Racing will come up with some great settings for us West Coast riders/racers and I know some of you here are tinkering with it or will be starting shortly, after you get your TXC 250.

If rairsx251 is already getting more out of his, with minor tweaks and he sais there is more...I can tell you this...Believe it...This bike has more, we just have to go find it...which I dont personally mind too much.

This bike IS a winner...Hopefully I can represent at Tecate Hare Scrambles on Dec. 5th.

Mitch.

 

[Coffee]

I'm not sure NC, that's why I'm hoping someone way smarter than me can shed some light on the Mikuni system's capabilities. I'm betting that it's pretty basic. But I'm totally ignorant to the facts as far as its sophistication.

The 2009s that were tested at Dynojet were indeed pretty basic.

There is now something called 'valuese' which are 3 numbers that are adjusted by the ecu to accommodate certain things. The information is (somewhere) in the efi forum, and Husky Sport is up on that too. I believe they are only used in closed loop - O2 sensor installed and connected.

 

[Coffee]

...why would the average Joe go buy one when they have so many cookie cutter options that don't suffer from these issues.As the earlier poster mentioned most folks and a large base of the folks that Husky is hoping to appeal too so they may grow their customer base to where they need it in the US market are not looking to wrench but just ride.
No one mines playing with a clicker,sag etc but having to spend their riding days trying to sort out F/I is asking way too much.

I've been screaming this at the top of my lungs for months. There has been much progress. There are now Dynojet products for instance. No that is not an acceptable answer (at all) but it is progress.

Bottom line is: these are not cookie cutter products. KTM is the only other manufacturer with a dirtbike with a 50 state license plate. But if things were done a little better, sales would be significantly higher.

Do you people realize how far this company has come in the last 2 years? It has been a huge transformation. Were there any race teams 2 years ago?

 

[SanDHusky]

Yes Number Cruncher, they come with a plastic skid plate. I am running mine without the sparky and it is loud...IMO.

Are you dualsporting with yours when you get it or strictly off road?

If your only going to do off road and no street...I would strongly recommend the TXC. It comes with no Dual Sport stuff and from looking at the quick referance book, it seems like the trannys are the same ratios from 1st to 5th on all three. Of course the TE and TXC have the taller 6th gear.

I am running mine with the supplied 50 tooth rear sprocket and it zips along in 6th gear.

The emissions sticker under the seat (on rear fender) states that the bike conforms to US EPA emissions regulations and meets emissions standards for California. Hence the choked down state it comes in.....Sorry rest of the free world for our California rules and regulations

 

[WR BOB]

I don't want a broken-in bike from the manufacturer. Realizing what break-in really means, I prefer to do it myself than you... NOT be at the mercy of someone whose job it is to get a bike in a shipping crate as soon as possible. Nosiree, I'll do the breaking in by myself.

Come to think of it, I don't expect the manufacturer to supply a 100% dialed-in (set up) bike either... how could they? There's almost an infinite number of variables (even with EFI). IMO, the manufacturer should equip the dealer with enough information and tools to get the bike out the door close to how it's designed to perform. Even then, break-in, riding styles, local conditions etc. play too much of a role in determining final set-up. I'd rather do the "fine tuning" myself, which is why I prefer a carb to EFI.

I'll probably get slammed for saying this, but IMO, if you are mechanically uninclined you should live within 30 to 60 minutes of a competent dealer or you really have no grounds to whine about a bike purchase that doesn't turn out to meet 100% of your expectations from the day of delivery.

I agree with Krieg. I read both mags and was really sursprised specially with MXA's report. What's worse for the brand, giving these mags bikes to test and getting bashed or staying away from these Jap loving mags. Funny how both mags always luuuuv them some Orange.

WR Bob