Extra oil/h2o cooling options for 05-07 510?

[J.R.]

Im building a 530 supermoto and am going to be road racing it.. I want to keep the temps down on h2o as well as oil.

Im going to be putting on an Uptite "Y" or the equivalent if I make my own. Anyone have a price on the uptite Y? I wish George would put prices on his site...

I keep reading about a high flow water pump, but as far as I can tell its for the 08+ models, But if Im not mistaken, the 510 motors are the same correct? Just a change with the fuel delivery from carb to FI. I also saw a radiator cap in a husky special parts catalogue with a set of new hoses, Any info about that? Does it have a different PSI rating? How does that affect the bike?

I'd also like to try an oil cooler. Maybe in line with the external supply line that runs from the pump to the head? I saw some pics that robertaccio posted up a long time ago, but not much more info on those trails.


Any ideas/advice is appreciated!

 

[rancher1]

I have the HP water pump and uptite Y on my 2005 TE 510 and I am happy with both. My bike would want to overheat a little on really long tight sections and it is much more resistant now. By the way I got them both from motosportz with out having to go to multiple places.

 

[J.R.]

Just got an answer on another thread that the water pump works on older motors as well. So Im going to get that as well.

Just for clarification, I am trying to prevent high OIL temps. I probably wont have issues with high H2O temps since Ill be getting a lot of airflow thru the radiators from going fast. But I was thinking of doing the water pump because I read it will also help cool oil temps a few degrees. I figured the Uptite "Y" would do the same thing to a small extent...

My main concern is keeping oil temps down so I am looking for anything to help that.

 

[robertaccio]

cv4 makes the sil hoses with built in tee/y

new water pump like you said.
ZipTy racing is a good phone call away they have been using oil coolers on the 450/510 family for a while now, Ty said the oil temps are too high in his comp machines. We first saw them on Tys and Bobby G machines at the USMXGP and I think dirtbike or another mag had Q&A with ty with some shots of the oil cooler set up. Also there is GP motos in San Diego they were the US Husky factory SM shop for a couple of years with 630,510s and 450s in the US AMA SM championship.
Zupin in Germany is another source for high end SM stuff.
Its all about resources. best of luck on your project

 

[robertaccio]

 

[robertaccio]

http://www.cvproducts.com/Powerspor...Powersports&2=Cooling&Name=Silicone+Hose+Kits

 

[J.R.]

Any reason for the silicone hoses besides new color?

Looking at the pics of oil coolers. How do you think they got it to circulate through the cooler? Some sort of pump? Or did they utilize the stock oil pump somehow? I can see the lines on the oil filter, Is that purely for the oil supply, or is there a flow through there that could supply a cooler?

I emailed Zip-Ty about oil coolers yesterday, still waiting for a response. Talked with GP cycles already. Havent talked with Zupin yet.. May try that

 

[robertaccio]

thicker perhaps a little tougher, higher heat rating(?), I got the red set on my TXC

for the oil cooler,to me they just picked off the flow from the oil filter area with an adapter assy to feed the cooler. the stock oil pump has enough pressure to push through the filter so why not push through the cooler as well with the added benefit of more oil volume.

In my (and in the ZipTy) bike/s Evans non-aqueous coolant is used under the ZipTy label and I have a 1.8bar cap on my radiator as well as the heavy duty/hi pressure crossover tube, it may get hot but it will never boil over or boil out.

 

[J.R.]

So, why couldnt you put the oil cooler in line with the external line that runs from the pump up to the head? That would be a lot easier than having to machine a new filter cap to facilitate two fittings..



Odd question, But i dont understand the changing of radiator caps. If you change the pressure rating on your cap, it just changes when it lets fluid out of the overflow, correct? And doesnt actually do anything to lower the temp, correct? I could see a water pump change affecting temperature if you were to have it open earlier so the water cycles more often.. But I dont see how a cap will lower temperaturs..?

 

[K7MDL]

Odd question, But i dont understand the changing of radiator caps. If you change the pressure rating on your cap, it just changes when it lets fluid out of the overflow, correct? And doesnt actually do anything to lower the temp, correct? I could see a water pump change affecting temperature if you were to have it open earlier so the water cycles more often.. But I dont see how a cap will lower temperaturs..?

Water boils at 100C at 1 ATM (standard atmospheric pressure). Increase the system pressure, the boiling point raises also. A pressurized nuclear reactor runs many hundreds of PSI to enable the water temperature to be very high and not boil. The higher the temperature, the more heat can be transferred from the hot core to the relatively cool steam generator and drive turbine generators to make power. Same thing with boiler plants.

However when a break occurs, or a relief valve pops, and the pressure lets off (far enough), you have super heated steam! Look out! Think steam explosions in the reactor core, 3 mile island kind of stuff, dogs and cats living together, when the pressure lets go too far. Your engine does not get the message and keeps on creating heat that is not being removed and steam is not a good heat conductor, so it spirals out of control fast.

The higher the temp difference is (between hot and cold objects), the greater the heat transfer rates. In our case the greater the temp in our radiator, the greater the heat transfer is to the ambient air. A higher system pressure also helps prevent water flashing to steam in the low pressure portion of the pump.

There is some limit to this, too high a temp and parts may break. Too high a system pressure and parts may break (think gaskets failing).

Most of us use a water based coolant so the higher pressure can help stand low radiator effectiveness when we have no fan or poor airflow or high ambient temps. Even waterless coolants can boil at a given system pressure, they just have a higher boiling point than water for the same system pressure, and maybe offer/claim other benefits, such as less toxic, better corrosion protection.

- Mike

 

[jo360]

you could remove the bash plate to get more airflow to the crankcase you could also install a copper radiator but both have their downsides.
i would go with the oil cooler.

 

[J.R.]

Water boils at 100C at 1 ATM (standard atmospheric pressure). Increase the system pressure, the boiling point raises also. A pressurized nuclear reactor runs many hundreds of PSI to enable the water temperature to be very high and not boil. The higher the temperature, the more heat can be transferred from the hot core to the relatively cool steam generator and drive turbine generators to make power. Same thing with boiler plants.

However when a break occurs, or a relief valve pops, and the pressure lets off (far enough), you have super heated steam! Look out! Think steam explosions in the reactor core, 3 mile island kind of stuff, dogs and cats living together, when the pressure lets go too far. Your engine does not get the message and keeps on creating heat that is not being removed and steam is not a good heat conductor, so it spirals out of control fast.

The higher the temp difference is (between hot and cold objects), the greater the heat transfer rates. In our case the greater the temp in our radiator, the greater the heat transfer is to the ambient air. A higher system pressure also helps prevent water flashing to steam in the low pressure portion of the pump.

There is some limit to this, too high a temp and parts may break. Too high a system pressure and parts may break (think gaskets failing).

Most of us use a water based coolant so the higher pressure can help stand low radiator effectiveness when we have no fan or poor airflow or high ambient temps. Even waterless coolants can boil at a given system pressure, they just have a higher boiling point than water for the same system pressure, and maybe offer/claim other benefits, such as less toxic, better corrosion protection.

- Mike

Thanks! Makes sense. I was thinking of getting an HD water pump as I've heard they help reduce oil temps as well. As result of the lower H2O temp cooling the motor I imagine. BUT Im more concerned about something I can do to directly help the oil temp than water temp as Ill be road racing. Faster speeds -> more radiator airflow-> Cool water temp. I think the cooler will be the best thing, since it not only cools, but adds volume. I just need to figure out how..

you could remove the bash plate to get more airflow to the crankcase you could also install a copper radiator but both have their downsides.
i would go with the oil cooler.

Going to try the oil cooler. Just need to figure out how Zip TY did theirs. That cap obviously shows where the supply comes from, I just dont know how things are routed inside that cap besides the oil filter. They havent responded to the email I sent them.... arggh

 

[Bigred97]

Email steve@ziptyracing.com directly you will get a quicker response.

 

[J.R.]

I finally got a response from Zip Ty. They want $560 for an oil cooler setup and wide radiators. Asked them for some help on building my own and also a price on just the oil cooler setup.... We'll see what they say. If they dont respond quickly Ill shoot an email to Steve. Thanks big red

 

[J.R.]

Bumpitty.

Anyone have experience with oil coolers? I'm also looking for small gauges for oil temp/psi, rpm

 

[firebolter]

It's too bad they don't make an option like they do for the KTM RFS motors. This is my 525 with the HT Racing Oil cooler. Adds .6 of a quart of oil to the system also. So now with this, I HOLD AS MUCH OIL AS MY 310 DOES or 1.8 US Q with a filter! Thats another thing I like better on the Husky's, they hold a better amount of oil. The RFS KTM's only hold 1.2 quarts stock. Oil coolers work, they do reduce the temps. Nive if you can find an option that is clean and easy. These are 400 bucks, but they are solid billet.

 

[J.R.]

Hmm.. Definitely a lot of metal there!

But what Im trying to find out is How to tap into the flow of oil. Maybe a dumb question..? When I talked with Zipty racing about their coolers, they said it is a stock filter and the only change is the cap with the lines. So how do they tap into the flow of oil without changing the filter? Ill post some pics if ya want to help brainstorm.
Thanks!

Btw, I emailed Steve, But I havent heard a response from him yet... And I never heard back from the other guy I was originally emailing back and forth with.

 

[MXRider]

I have been thinking of getting the oil cooler setup too.
$560 for the cooler and radiators? not too bad really.

I already have Samco hoses and the HP water pump and both have helped a lot.

 

[J.R.]

That small hole is 6mm in diameter, just under 1/4 inch.

Here's the same shot with the filter in. Maybe 2 or 3mm between the filter and the side of its hole.. so I'm not sure how you could get the oil supply from that hole to one of the lines on zipty's cooler.

Any ideas? I'm thinkin of just running the supply line to a cooler, then another from the cooler to the head. It would accomplish the same as zipty's, but would be in line after the filter rather than before... opinions?

 

[J.R.]

It's too bad they don't make an option like they do for the KTM RFS motors. This is my 525 with the HT Racing Oil cooler. Adds .6 of a quart of oil to the system also. So now with this, I HOLD AS MUCH OIL AS MY 310 DOES or 1.8 US Q with a filter! Thats another thing I like better on the Husky's, they hold a better amount of oil. The RFS KTM's only hold 1.2 quarts stock. Oil coolers work, they do reduce the temps. Nive if you can find an option that is clean and easy. These are 400 bucks, but they are solid billet.

So where do those lines go to/from on your cooler? Got pics of that part?

I have been thinking of getting the oil cooler setup too.
$560 for the cooler and radiators? not too bad really.

I already have Samco hoses and the HP water pump and both have helped a lot.

No its not bad if you want the radiators, but I dont know if ill really need them. Since ill be road racing, ill have a lot more inflow through the rads than I would if I were doing slower paced racing. Did the water pump help lower oil temps as a result of lower h2o temp? I read on here that it did. Which, by that logic, a set of radiators could help cool oil by having another drop in h2o temps.. but I really just wanna spend the money on an oil cooler for now