TE/TC Going on record as a Hater

[Huskyfatman]

The first thing I did on my TE250 was back off the compression almost all the way out. Then I decided to back off the rear shock preload to get the ride load bias more to the rear and off the forks. For me that works pretty well...the bike still turns well, but now holds a line way better than with normal shock preload settings. Nose landings off jumps seem smooth now too. I wonder if the 250 setup is less harsh than the 300's, although the factory settings were as close to dangerous as any bike I've ridden; head shake, didn't hold a line, hopping-swapping rear, etc, and I weigh in a 160 lbs +/- presumably the target weight for this bike. It is strange that KTM has such a hard time getting these suspensions dialed.

So, I don't hate my forks, but they aren't up to what I'd expect for the price.

Thanks Kawagumby. I totally respect your opinion being that you do your own suspension. I'm used to having to Taylor most of my bikes to my weight. I'm not ready to throw in the towel on the 4 chambers, but they seem to almost hydrolock at rare times. Before anyone asks, I know how to set the axle properly. The kid who put in the springs left the valving stock and I put a heavier progressive spring on the rear. It's better, but far from where I need it to be.

Talked to Dick, and he didn't sound too positive about these forks. So, Kreft or Zip-Ty? What's the consinses?

 

[HuskyMax]

I've done quite a bit of internet research and personally talked to Ty, and after about a 15 min. convo he described exactly what my concerns where about these 4cs and what he can do to fix it without me saying a word ( like he was reading my mind )so I shipped them last week. I think these four chambers have potential as 4cs (the way they were designed) just need someone to figure them out. Does anyone know what the factory guys are doing to theirs or are they even running these?

 

[Tinken]

I agree, having the ability to adjust compression on the left and rebound on the right, on top, is a great feature and they do have potential. The first problem with that though is you need to be able to have a large adjustment available and that's just not there. That might be fine for factory riders who have a mechanic at their disposal who can valve to their specific needs every race with very little post adjustment needed. For the rest of us, we need clickers that really work. Also after inspecting the inner chambers, we realized a 5th chamber could be added for more functionality.

 

[rancher1]

The first thing I did on my TE250 was back off the compression almost all the way out. Then I decided to back off the rear shock preload to get the ride load bias more to the rear and off the forks. For me that works pretty well...the bike still turns well, but now holds a line way better than with normal shock preload settings. Nose landings off jumps seem smooth now too. I wonder if the 250 setup is less harsh than the 300's, although the factory settings were as close to dangerous as any bike I've ridden; head shake, didn't hold a line, hopping-swapping rear, etc, and I weigh in a 160 lbs +/- presumably the target weight for this bike. It is strange that KTM has such a hard time getting these suspensions dialed.

So, I don't hate my forks, but they aren't up to what I'd expect for the price.

That sounds race ready !

 

[vntgmx]

This is all interesting as I've found the 4cs forks on my '14 FE350 to be fine thus far. I ride mostly sand with whoops and some some sharp edge bumps and even had it to a local MX track last weekend that is mostly hard pack with lots of ruts and square edge bumps etc and with a few adjustments to comp and reb I found the forks good there as well. Now I'm no fast guy or anything but this has just been my personal experience thus far. While I find all modern forks too rigid for my liking if nothing else I haven't noticed any heavy deflection or lack of trust on what to expect from the 4CS' both in the woods and on the track. Definitely a topic I'll be following as seems there's more then a few who are unhappy with their performance.

 

[john01]

I have the orange Husky, 2015 350 XCF and I've been chasing my forks for at least a month now. Every time I think I'm close they seem to need more adjustments. Some of this may just be part of the new bike break in thing but I'm old and can't chase things as well as I use to . I think I'm just going to box mine up and ship them across the country to ZipTy. My red Huskys were never awesome out the box but I could trust the front and ride the bikes; the KTM so far not so much. Anybody know the turn around time for ZipTy?

 

[Tinken]

I have the orange Husky, 2015 350 XCF and I've been chasing my forks for at least a month now. Every time I think I'm close they seem to need more adjustments. Some of this may just be part of the new bike break in thing but I'm old and can't chase things as well as I use to . I think I'm just going to box mine up and ship them across the country to ZipTy. My red Huskys were never awesome out the box but I could trust the front and ride the bikes; the KTM so far not so much. Anybody know the turn around time for ZipTy?

About a week once they arrive.

 

[Motosportz]

Open chamber KYBs with zipty work are amazing for off road. I prefer open chamber forks for off road gnar. Just more compliant, EZ to tune, suck up rocks, not so picky about settings, track well. My TE511 KYB forks were good stock and amazing after Ty massaged them.

 

[Bigbill]

Your suspension needs to be dialed in and tuned for your weight and style of riding.

At 290lbs at the time I could change the rear springs and shocks and fly on any 76-82 husqvarna bike. I changed the spring static setting on the 83 & up bikes and had no problem. On my 98 & 99 husqvarna bikes I couldn't ride them off road at all. I had more street miles than off road miles. This forum wasn't around to help me. I sold my 98 & 99 and rode the twin shock, left kickers again.

All I know about the single shock setup is the static race sag setting. You measure the bike rear height with no one on it. Then you get on it in full riding gear. With 12" of suspension travel it should go down 4" with you on the bike. You tighten the shock spring till the 4" of race sag is achieved.

Think about it I spent $12k on two new bikes I couldn't ride off rode. I don't hate them but there not for my size. I never lost a red lite drag race.

 

[robertaccio]

check for all of us. in my case at my skill level and the focus point terrain i need these forks to work on, they dont. so my choice is to do whatever it takes to get them right for me, i hate to reconfigure/strip/ completly change etc a "new" set of forks, but if that makes me ride better over stuff i all ready have great info about im 100% in. I am handicapped over stuff that I have been hero riding over on my other bikes.
my statement to zipty is simple make them work, set them up for tecate enduro winning set up (Ty knows about that), because that is the terrain i want and need the thing to operate best on. that terrain is 85-90% of what i ride.
the rear feels darn good but maybe ty has some tricks for the back as well. my whole bike will be there for dial in.

 

[Motosportz]

check for all of us. in my case at my skill level and the focus point terrain i need these forks to work on, they dont. so my choice is to do whatever it takes to get them right for me, i hate to reconfigure/strip/ completly change etc a "new" set of forks, but if that makes me ride better over stuff i all ready have great info about im 100% in. I am handicapped over stuff that I have been hero riding over on my other bikes.
my statement to zipty is simple make them work, set them up for tecate enduro winning set up (Ty knows about that), because that is the terrain i want and need the thing to operate best on. that terrain is 85-90% of what i ride.
the rear feels darn good but maybe ty has some tricks for the back as well. my whole bike will be there for dial in.

You are doing the right thing.

 

[Kawagumby]

That sounds race ready !

LOL, I just want to survive my trail rides! Where I ride the sides of the trails are often close to vertical drops, I've got a bad back, I cannot afford to go over the edge or be beat to death by the trashy trails here. Suspension is by far the most important thing to me, and has been for a few decades now.

 

[robertaccio]

Your suspension needs to be dialed in and tuned for your weight and style of riding.

At 290lbs at the time I could change the rear springs and shocks and fly on any 76-82 husqvarna bike. I changed the spring static setting on the 83 & up bikes and had no problem. On my 98 & 99 husqvarna bikes I couldn't ride them off road at all. I had more street miles than off road miles. This forum wasn't around to help me. I sold my 98 & 99 and rode the twin shock, left kickers again.

All I know about the single shock setup is the static race sag setting. You measure the bike rear height with no one on it. Then you get on it in full riding gear. With 12" of suspension travel it should go down 4" with you on the bike. You tighten the shock spring till the 4" of race sag is achieved.

Think about it I spent $12k on two new bikes I couldn't ride off rode. I don't hate them but there not for my size. I never lost a red lite drag race.

Bill you forgot the other very important measurement static sag, in the case mentioned should be somewhere in the mid 30s mm even as much as 40. other wise you can take too lite a spring and crank in down way too much to get your 100mm race sag (at which time your static sag will go closer to 0 letting you know your spring is too lite.)

 

[vntgmx]

check for all of us. in my case at my skill level and the focus point terrain i need these forks to work on, they dont. so my choice is to do whatever it takes to get them right for me, i hate to reconfigure/strip/ completly change etc a "new" set of forks, but if that makes me ride better over stuff i all ready have great info about im 100% in. I am handicapped over stuff that I have been hero riding over on my other bikes.
my statement to zipty is simple make them work, set them up for tecate enduro winning set up (Ty knows about that), because that is the terrain i want and need the thing to operate best on. that terrain is 85-90% of what i ride.
the rear feels darn good but maybe ty has some tricks for the back as well. my whole bike will be there for dial in.

Absolutely doing the right thing. I'm sure you'll be grinning ear to ear after Ty massages them. You love the rest of the bike so it's money well spent!

 

[Bigbill]

Bill you forgot the other very important measurement static sag, in the case mentioned should be somewhere in the mid 30s mm even as much as 40. other wise you can take too lite a spring and crank in down way too much to get your 100mm race sag (at which time your static sag will go closer to 0 letting you know your spring is too lite.)

If I get a new husqvarna I'm going to need your help. Your right once we pass the springs working static limit we need to change the spring. I did this on my 86 husqvarna 400wr. I got lucky the local dealer had the stronger spring in stock.

Do they offer stronger fork and rear springs for the newer bikes? Valving for the forks?

 

[Kawagumby]

Here's a link to racetechs' gold valve installation instructions. The nice thing about gold valves is you get an idea of what shims to use initially based on your skill and terrain. but following that, you can modify them yourself based on your own feedback -"most" professional tuners really cannot understand exactly what is happening out there like the rider does. If you check the link out, you'll see that the instructions are comprehensive and give good insight into how these forks work. Obviously, working on these forks require a bit of patience and skill, but is within the reach of most mechanically inclined folks.
http://www.racetech.com/page/title/Fk GV Install WP 4CS
Another thing is the fork oil used, KTM has their SAE 4wt, but there are other oils out there that are close, viscosity-wise for less $, such as Showa. I always check the actual viscosity rating, NOT what it says on the bottle (big differences, depending upon the brand), to do that you can do an internet search and you will find several articles where people have tested the fluids and rate them, side by side, accordingly. Sometimes I use fluids slightly more or less viscous if the action is close, rather than doing a revalve (yes I'm lazy). But it works for me.

 

[Tinken]

Depends on the tuner, Ty is a suspension engineer not just a shim jockey that most riders are familiar with. We use gold valves sometimes, sometimes Racetech springs (racetech springs are eibach). We work very closely with ProCircuit, most of the owners have Ty valve their personal systems. Ty is great at understanding what is needed from talking with riders. I think this is why we have customers keep returning.

 

[Kawagumby]

Depends on the tuner, Ty is a suspension engineer not just a shim jockey that most riders are familiar with. We use gold valves sometimes, sometimes Racetech springs (racetech springs are eibach). We work very closely with ProCircuit, most of the owners have Ty valve their personal systems. Ty is great at understanding what is needed from talking with riders. I think this is why we have customers keep returning.

Yes, I would think Ty has a handle on what needs to be done... :-)

 

[robertaccio]

not 100% hater after today, but understander for sure. got them working full bore in loose sandy stuff and flowing trails even whoops are good, hopefully my chesty cam of our little test section worked. Still not where i need them for ugly trail hack ZipTy will et that sorted. Understanding why MXA likes these forks....they are still MX style in pure sand of a little wash they work great and very precise. As for Tinkens Ty description add on high level test pilot as well.

 

[HuskyMax]

Anxious to see what Ty does to your forks. My thoughts are pretty close to yours. I actually like the feel on big hits and landings. Bike tracks great and doesn't do anything funny. Straight up sucks on trail litter and and roots. Feels like they are packing up, but I'm no expert.
Was your front static or race sag even close with stock springs? I'm fat at 235 and the front race sag wasn't even close (way too high).