Help!!! TE 510 wobbles like duck!!

[ks9mm]

Gents,

my 09 TE 510 with stock michelin DOT knobbies wobbles like a duck after 45MPH... is this normal??? I mean it's so bad that going over 50mph is asking for trouble!!

could this be because previous owner raised the forks by at least an inch if not more..???

or this is normal behavior with knobbies on the pavement?

bike has 170 miles and seems to be in pristine condition, I really don't think there is frame damage or anything of that sort... I also never rode on dirt bike before, so I am not sure what to expect from dirt tires on the asphalt.


thanks!!

 

[MOTORHEAD]

Check your tire pressure, spokes and wheel bearings. Probable loose spokes.

 

[ks9mm]

just checked. wheels are all solid... no freeplay at all ...

what shoul the tire pressure be set to?

 

[Colo moto]

could this be because previous owner raised the forks by at least an inch if not more..???

That's definitely not helping things. Try lowering the forks in the clamps so you have maybe a half inch above the clamp. The lower they are the more stable it will be at speed, but handle a little slower in tight turns. Welcome to the club.

 

[glangston]

From my dealer, a note on installing front wheel....

Now that the debate on torque values is over.??? When you set LH fork leg heigth in the clamp Do Not think the other side will be the same, get it close then set it by how the axle goes in. You might have to either lower or raise it, so the axle goes in smooth. You can usually see it hitting the top or bottom of the axle hole on the LH side. Once you get the axle to just slide gently from one side to the other it is lined up properly. Now one side might be up or slightly down on the rings this is ok and it is right. You can tell if have to use palm of your hand or mallet to get the axle thru the forks when putting front wheel on. Later George

After the forks are installed to the correct heigth(where you want them), where the axle slides thru nicely, torque the clamp bolts both sides upper and lower to specs. With wheel installed and axle nut tight, thighten lower fork leg axle pinch bolts on the LH side( making sure the grab bar on the RH side of the axle is not touching the fork protecter)now slam it into a wall then tighten the axle pinch bolts on the RH side.
If while riding and you smack anything log, rock,get caught in a rut where you've dragged the lower leg, or rubbed it hard just loosen the pinch bolts and give it a good smack into anything solid to realign it on the axle. I think this is main reason other than dirt contamination fork seals wear out and leak. Later George

 

[ks9mm]

Just checked tire pressure. 26 front and rear. Stock Michelin dot knobbies.

 

[ks9mm]

And my fork tubes are definitely not at equal height. Off by about 2mm

 

[Creeper]

I assume by "wobble" you mean steering head/bar "shake". Wobble or shake can be caused by a number of things. Off the top of my head, and those not already listed by motorhead would be:

Tire type - pattern design etc.
Steering head bearings - too loose
Bent forks or front axle - it's a stretch, but something to consider
Swing arm bearings - too loose, and amazingly enough, sometimes too tight
Bound up rear suspension linkage - inspect and lubed it lately?
Excessive rake/trail/offset adjustments - like the mentioned forks too far up in the trees
Incorrect suspension adjustments - like, really way the hell off
Excessive rider inputs - "death grip" on the bars
Extreme weight bias - carrying too much weight on the front or rear of the vehicle

"Inputs" from one area of the chassis can cause unusual "outputs", like wobble, to occur at another part of the chassis.

Best 'O luck finding it,
C

 

[Ruffus]

Just checked tire pressure. 26 front and rear. Stock Michelin dot knobbies.

On my 06 (if my memory serves me correctly) street pressure should be around 14 to 16 psi according to the manual.
Also is it a handle bar wobble, or does it it feel like the tires are out of balance? (single rim locks will do that at higher speeds)

 

[Motosportz]

Shove the forks down in the triples and balance the wheels. Makes a huge difference.

 

[ghte]

It could well be the rim lock. They make the wheel feel concentric at speed. Either innore it or put some spoke or adhesvie rim weights diametrically opposite the rim lock to balance out the wheel. Good luck with your delightful new bush weapon

 

[CARL REHATCHEK]

How do the wheels spin on a bike stand.. Spokes could have been tightened wrong and egg shaped the rim(front, Rear or both) and the whobble would be nasty..

Also check to see if the bead is set on both tires as that could cause a problem also. I agree if a rime lock is tighted and the bead did not come up that would be a very nasty ride..

Hope it helps

Chow, Carl

 

[MOTORHEAD]

I just had my TE510 on pavement with a 120/100X18 PIRELLI MT32 ( no, it's not DOT )on the rear at 14psi a PIRELLI 83 on the front at 14psi and tracked smooth at all speeds. The forks are at the second groove and the rear sag is set about 105mm.

I was up to over 80mph on gravel and it did fine. I even tapped it out on some pavement trying to get away from a crazed quad rider who seemed to be chasing me.

The stock Michies even gave a better road performance.

 

[ks9mm]

ok, there is definitely a problem... once again, bike is 09 TE510 with 170 miles on it.

I dropped the forks to third line from top to match my 1 inch Kouba link. checked for any loose things and freeplay, wheel aligment, tire pressure, wheels being round and all, set suspension back to stock settings and checked my sag little less than 4 inches.

after doing all that work, wobble now begins at 50 -55 mph as opposed to 40 -45 before...

I am out of ideas now and think about taking it back to dealership...problem is I bought it used, and there is no warranty..

I used to road race and street bikes and this is my first dirt bike... but I am not imagining wobble...it's not as bad as on the video, but I could definitely feel it enough to stop opening up above 55mph


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfscA6Ybd2o

 

[robertaccio]

balance the wheels. Makes a huge difference.

 

[Coffee]

My bike did that at 25mph when new.

Let me guess, you are not a big guy. Under 225lbs?

Anyway:

• lower tire pressure to no more than 15ish
• balance the wheels - go to an automotive shop and they will probably give you some stick on weight for free. Put about 2.75 oz front, 3.5 oz back opposite the rimlocks.
• and probably lower the rear sag - but unknown how a lowering link would affect that.
• for experimentation purposes only, you may want to put some type of artificial weight on. Maybe a back pack with a gallon of liquids in it?

tire pressure,

While I am sure you checked the pressure, if you had mentioned what it was, that would allow us to be even more precise with input.

 

[ks9mm]

My bike did that at 25mph when new.

Let me guess, you are not a big guy. Under 225lbs?

Anyway:

• lower tire pressure to no more than 15ish
• balance the wheels - go to an automotive shop and they will probably give you some stick on weight for free. Put about 2.75 oz front, 3.5 oz back opposite the rimlocks.
• and probably lower the rear sag - but unknown how a lowering link would affect that.
• for experimentation purposes only, you may want to put some type of artificial weight on. Maybe a back pack with a gallon of liquids in it?

While I am sure you checked the pressure, if you had mentioned what it was, that would allow us to be even more precise with input.

Thanks!

so yes... I am 155lbs, not a big guy,
Tire pressure at both ends is set to 15 now
I have to take it to the shop to balance wheels but i think I know what unballanced wheel feels like... more of up and down vibration.
while what I have now is side to side weave.. (but hey, i guess I can tape some weight on and try... cant hurt..)
Rear sag is just under 4 inches, I think I will try reducing it to 3.5 or so..

 

[HUSKYnXJnWI]

Look back to all the "set UP" recomendations- All great info****************************************
One thing that you have that no one on here probably has is the KOUBA Link. That does effect suspension and handling and its hard predict just how to compensate for that. Rear sag set up with a KOUBA is different than normal I would assume. BUT put the fork legs flush with the tripples- at least For now- just to verify that your sag/trail/rake is causing the high speed instability.
I would also check all the clicker settings- ensure they are stock for now- not turned all the way one way.

My wheels are unballenced I run full knobbies- (michelen s12s) and I run them at 11lbs on the front and 9lbs on the rear. I have the tripples currently set to the 3rd mark- rear sag is 4 inches. I soffened compression from stock -4 clicks and turned up rebound +5 clicks from memory. My bike feels like I could supermoto it on pavement when I end up on pavement- but set up is focused on offroad.

That said- dirtbikes and knobbies on pavement is a different beast if you aren't used to it. knobbies float! and your input is a variable-always. I "backed it in" to a corner on a curvy paved road by accident last year still finding the power it had.

You'll sort it out! Good Luck,
b

 

[Coffee]

Thanks!

so yes... I am 155lbs, not a big guy,

I'm amazed it does not wobble at a lower speed then.

I did many experiments, with added weight on the bike (4 gallon jugs of liquid tied on) my wobble was much much less. Balancing the wheels made a huge improvement. In the end I got my bike re-valved and lowered and that fixed the issue completely. Yes it does not make much sense that the bikes wheels being out of balance would cause wobble, but it did on my bike.

For experimentation purposes you don't really need the wheels professionally balanced, just some weights added as I typed earlier.

 

[robertaccio]

FYI for the non dot knob on pavement stuff. Been on Mexico rides going 65mph down the highway with non dot knobbies with no issue at all (well they are not street tires, but no wobble bounce etc) mine are balanced with weights installed. Suspension sag is set up as normal with rear at 100mm, forks are set in the clamps within a normal/neutral position, I think 10-15mm projection (1.5 lines I think). verify base settings for the reb and comp as well, make sure all fasteners are tight (motor mounts, swingarm etc) do the ding test to the spokes as well. best of luck, should be no real mystery.