How are those rock hard Rotax transmissions doing?

[scotty]

Blakebird is spot on, I got one of my mates to sit on my Terra and checked
the chain, I'd done 200 miles and it was too tight. I slackened it off and the gearbox
feels much better. As Blakebird says it needs a lot of slack, in fact looking at it static
the chain looks was too slack but is ok. The Terra does everything you guys say it does
in fact its taken the place of my 511smr which I'm now selling. Anyone want a full titanium
Akra and a power commander for a 449/511? Scotty

 

[rride]

Blakebird is spot on, I got one of my mates to sit on my Terra and checked
the chain, I'd done 200 miles and it was too tight. I slackened it off and the gearbox
feels much better. As Blakebird says it needs a lot of slack, in fact looking at it static
the chain looks was too slack but is ok. The Terra does everything you guys say it does
in fact its taken the place of my 511smr which I'm now selling. Anyone want a full titanium
Akra and a power commander for a 449/511? Scotty

Yeah, I have to admit, it makes sense. My old BMW mechanic from Italy in Nashville (RIP) used to tell me to sit on it, hit the chain with an adjustable wrench a few times, and loosened it up. I did not associate sitting on it and the tension would increase. We used to bs a lot to each other while I was getting maintenance freebies, so that association got by me: he kept me running good though when I racked up 1200 mile Saturdays (26 hrs) sore butts. I just adjusted it to the loosest length around the chain to shop manual specs. Likewise, I did not use the new oil for motorcycles only and just used a good 20/50; so that should make a noticeable difference as well.

Cool, that's a relief to me as well as it should be to you guys as well.

I'll have to go get my F650 and get it running to check it out. It sure makes sense. I don't know how that will effect the sprocket and chain wear, but it seems like that should improve as well. Splitting the case on the engine and finding a trans guy you can trust (on anything except a 4 cylinder mc) to back-cut gears/xray parts/etc... is no small task. That should give me another 80k care free miles ;-)

Now the only imperfection in the engine, which is not THAT big of deal is the water pump. But the F650 Chain Gang site has about 3 or 4 member versions of electronic fuel pumps which are pretty snappy and not that expensive for parts (about $100 total give or take).

Thanks Blakebird.

 

[Jughead]

I can't say that I've ridden any modern bikes ('post '83), but I don't see anything to complain about with the TR tranny. Most of my 240K miles were spent on BMW boxers.

 

[nwrider1]

I've only got about 100 miles on my Strada but the gearbox is very smooth and no missed shifts. I wonder if the OP's bike is the exception.

 

[HARDER1]

I've only got about 100 miles on my Strada but the gearbox is very smooth and no missed shifts. I wonder if the OP's bike is the exception.

The OP doesn't even own a Strada or Terra. I don't think he's even ridden one. Just a keyboard commando....

I shortened my Touratech adjustable shift lever one notch and my shifts are WAY better. Smooth positive shifting now. I had it too long and wasn't getting enough lift on my upshifts.

 

[Lekolite]

I've not missed any shifts but am thinking of either altering or replacing the shifter arm. I am wearing MX boots for the first time and getting a feel for the shifter is difficult compared to my hiking boots. To those with the Touratech adjustable, how much do you like it?

 

[rride]

The OP doesn't even own a Strada or Terra. I don't think he's even ridden one. Just a keyboard commando....

I shortened my Touratech adjustable shift lever one notch and my shifts are WAY better. Smooth positive shifting now. I had it too long and wasn't getting enough lift on my upshifts.

Well, I've had 4 BMW's and a 1997 F650 Rotax (since January 1997). The differences in transmissions between the F650 and TR 650 bikes should be nil. Your bike not only has the same transmission, but was designed by BMW and a carbon copy of one of their efi models with enhanced forks, efi, and a high performance top end. As a keyboard commando, I also owned 2 Norton 750 Commandos (71 and 72) if that's what you mean.

Initial responses from this thread, from knowledgeable posters, indicated the problem is still there (same transmission as in BMW F650, F650 GS, G650, and Bombardier DS 650 atv with pre 2000 F650 carbureted engine built from 2000 to 2008, and NOW the Husky TR 650), and you will not know now fully as little miles as you have now. The only way I knew about the ultimate backcutting solution was following Bombardier (now CanAM) atv drag racing (which the DS 650 was the single cylinder world record holder for 2 years.) At least I now have a couple more ways to finesse the transmission, but feel ultimately backcutting the gears is the sound solution. Aprilia's Pegasso 650, which the BMW F650 came from had an award winning transmission. The Rotax transmission is a few grinds short of that. But then again, BMW never let Aprilia have the reliable sleeved main bearing engine design: the transmission can be fixed but not the reliable engine design.

Good luck on adjusting your Touratech adjustable shifter. In the mean time, confidently grind, crack, and damage your internal transmission components. Off roading will not have the same coefficient of friction as riding on the pavement, so yes, it should be negligible in comparison.

 

[Coffee]

...

I've not given my input because to be honest, I cannot decide if it shifts hard or not. I am still evaluating. Sometimes it is perfect, sometimes 'notchy'.

As previously mentioned, it could be that my chain is too tight.

I would be interested in your opinion if you ever get a chance to ride one.

 

[rride]

I plan to test ride one in the next month, and will gladly offer my opinion since the CH Owner asks (and the kind Donkeys approved). However, the transmission is virtually unchanged since 1993 (European F650, actually 1992 pre introduction year), so for street riding, I don't imagine that will be swaying too much. Forgive me for holding off my test rides to the last minute, but I am human and know sales are mainly determined by a percentage of test rides given.

My main test ride interests will be 1. enhanced efi (MAINLY), 2. Top end (to see how great it is), and 3. suspension (to see perceived usd fork advantages for the street). I am still in the purchase new or refurbish cost-benefit analysis stage which the test ride will conclude (the best efi bike made vs a Delorto single carbed top end job Rotax 650 with backcut gears). Buying new is easier and maybe more inexpensive in the long run (even if I back cut the gears on the TR 650 from new), but the efi and transmissions are the sticky points in the decision.

Thank You and your wonderful members kindly. Ride Safe!

 

[Motosportz]

However, the transmission is virtually unchanged since 1993

How would you know this? I am guessing lots of changes since 93 even if just in the metal quality or supplier.

 

[rride]

How would you know this? I am guessing lots of changes since 93 even if just in the metal quality or supplier.

Good point. How does anyone know anything? First, let me clarify that the main engineering change I am talking about is grinds on gears: either high skilled labor (a couple of hundred dollars per bike labor, at least after overhead attached) or ultra expensive automation ($1k/bike in overhead). Observation and correlation from history from at least one thousand owners (of different bikes), thousands of shifts, and the same exact transmission (based on owner responses for over a decade) used in 20 years of different models in different companies including a TR650 poster yesterday on your site (below at the bottom) with a similar response.

No one knows all the proprietary engineering changes, the main response variable is clients feedback like the one below. And that is just the start with a brand new bike. The ONLY solution was from back cutting gears on extreme use: a heavy atv 4 wheel vehicle and drag racer to boot -> the ultimate test. Even in survey form, the extent of the data would correlate strongly even in non-parametric statistics that do not assume ANY statistical distribution used to minimize sample size for confidence intervals.

http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/clutch-adjustment-required.33010/

 

[nev..]

I plan to test ride one in the next month

So your many opinions on this bike are not even based on experience of even a single testride? I would dispute that the Terra gearbox is unchanged for the past 13+ years. Mine shifts much smoother than a 2003 F650 my wife owned.

 

[Hansi]

Good point. How does anyone know anything? First, let me clarify that the main engineering change I am talking about is grinds on gears: either high skilled labor (a couple of hundred dollars per bike labor, at least after overhead attached) or ultra expensive automation ($1k/bike in overhead). Observation and correlation from history from at least one thousand owners (of different bikes), thousands of shifts, and the same exact transmission (based on owner responses for over a decade) used in 20 years of different models in different companies including a TR650 poster yesterday on your site (below at the bottom) with a similar response.

No one knows all the proprietary engineering changes, the main response variable is clients feedback like the one below. And that is just the start with a brand new bike. The ONLY solution was from back cutting gears on extreme use: a heavy atv 4 wheel vehicle and drag racer to boot -> the ultimate test. Even in survey form, the extent of the data would correlate strongly even in non-parametric statistics that do not assume ANY statistical distribution used to minimize sample size for confidence intervals.

http://www.cafehusky.com/threads/clutch-adjustment-required.33010/

Blablablablablabla............. Dude, I don't wan't to be impolite, but you are over-analyzing/speculating on things and throwing big words around to make yourself look important. Compared to to my Buell Ulysses and my Triumph Tiger 955i the Terra is a sweet shifting bike. I don't think I ever had in 3000 miles a bad shift. Don't think most of us TR650 owners here on this forum will ever have to worry about extreme use and "the grind on gears" that you are implying.
Just go and test ride/buy a Terra or Strada, ride the sh$% out of it, find the facts out yourself and report back here.

BTW: http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=834987&highlight=sibirsky+extreme
Talking about extreme use. Same gears in Colebatch's bike, right?

Sorry Coffee if I overstepped the bounds here.

 

[blakebird]

rrider - Nobody undercuts transmission gears except for people who race.
It's just not common practice to make a transmission shift smoother - it's done in severe use applications to keep a motor from popping out of gear under a high power load.

 

[rride]

rrider - Nobody undercuts transmission gears except for people who race.
It's just not common practice to make a transmission shift smoother - it's done in severe use applications to keep a motor from popping out of gear under a high power load.

Thanks. I hear what you are saying, but a Rotax is a single cylinder racer and has been from the day it was introduced whether people ride it like that or not. With the high CR and HP of the TR 650, if you ride on the road a lot, you should be finding out soon enough. F650 GS's with efi also ran hot and some burned rings (which pistons and rings were rock steady on F650's good at least for 100k miles before that), but they got great gas mileage. F650's have been winning races in their class for a long time in every model and manufacturer of the F650 engine. The TR 650 may win the most yet with the hyper G650 engine. Time will tell. It's already the fastest from stock.

 

[blakebird]

Thanks. I hear what you are saying, but a Rotax is a single cylinder racer and has been from the day it was introduced whether people ride it like that or not.

I'm not sure where you dig up most of your information, but it's frequently just not correct.

The Rotax that was raced from day one, is the air-cooled 600 that ATK used in their excellent dirtbike, and which Ron Wood Rotax racing won a ton of races with.
The BMW / Rotax single is a big heavy lump - please show me a team that used it for racing.
http://thekneeslider.com/ron-wood-rotax-flat-track-motorcycles/

 

[vntgmx]

Threads like this are why you need to ignore what is said and written on the internet otherwise you'll think there's issues with a bike that are imaginary and allow it to foolishly cloud your buying decision!
Trust me the trans on the TR650 shifts as good it comes and I owned an '07 BMW 650GS and it shifted excellent as well so all this blah blah is just internet nonsense!
Go buy one and enjoy it and you'll wear yourself out far before you wear the tranny out!

 

[Coffee]

Lets keep calm.

With regard to the OP not riding a TR650 and asking how does it shift - seems reasonable to me. If he had mentioned that he already owned 4 of them in his first post I seriously doubt he would have gotten as many responses.

 

[rride]

I'm not sure where you dig up most of your information, but it's frequently just not correct.

The Rotax that was raced from day one, is the air-cooled 600 that ATK used in their excellent dirtbike, and which Ron Wood Rotax racing won a ton of races with.
The BMW / Rotax single is a big heavy lump - please show me a team that used it for racing.
http://thekneeslider.com/ron-wood-rotax-flat-track-motorcycles/

Blakebird,

Ron Woods was famous for racing flat track Nortons, and he'd run the pee out of them. As a marketeer he sold these high dollar flatrack kits for Rotax, Yamaha, and probably Honda too, but it never caught on real big from what I saw this century anyway. The F650 engine was mainly built in Europe by Panduit and other smaller jobshops and in the US by several atv drag racers (a sizable business in US) since it was against the law in the US except for racing, dirt, and atv's. You have to use Bombardier DS 650 atv racing parts (same engine as a pre 2000 BMW F650) to build one in the USA similar to the top end job the Husky has in components (forged piston, cams (although the Rotax is a very good one stock, Web cam has a great short duration high lift torque cam), titanium valves, etc...). Most components can be got at Millineum made like OEM (its where all OEM racers go to including Husky I'm sure):

http://www.mt-llc.com/

They are very reasonable cost parts and cannot be matched anywhere in the world, at their prices, especially cylinder and the special cylinders liner used in your bike made custom to each piston - perfect (they currently hold the right to the nickasil cylinder liner process from BMW). But it is very cookbook, if you do it for reliability like Husky did (although they do use higher compression to make up for efi lower rpm single cylinder shortcomings which worked very nicely). I am very impressed with what Husky did as they are truly world class.

Europe is where many races of all types including one a gregarious fellow on this thread inserted a big portfolio of a race. You can do anything you want with the F650 engine like the Dakar style, drag race, road race, ... in it's class, single cylinders. The engine is in many bikes and atv's for over 20 years. Ron Woods made flat tracking famous on his Nortons, and in fact ran the last qualifying lap in 2007 found in Google on a Norton Commando. I'm not sure what you are talking about the good old days on Rotax, but I am very interested in seeing information other than a Ron Woods ad (I don't doubt it because I believe you, but i cannot find anything except Ron Woods marketing ads). I remember seeing a nice top end builder in CA for Rotax air cooled engines, but I haven't seen his ad lately. I'm sure there is a cult following, but it is obscure to someone not following the action real time, if it is still popular at all now. CA has been discouraging racing activity in all areas.

http://www.ctracing.com/ds6501.htm

There are a lot of built Rotax 650's all over the world. Now Husky has put together the best efi example I know of as an oem bike. It is one of the longest successful engine designs due to a lot of great European companies efforts (Aprilia, BMW, Rotax, Husky). I don't think Ron Woods, as great as he is, is a footnote on the most successful running Rotax single cylinder of them all. I could be mistaken, but I have not seen any evidence in the last 18 years. You travel different circles so maybe you can help guide me with some links.

Thanks!