125-200cc I seized her again...

[juicypips]

Too be fair my lectron came close as std, im 1/4 leaner on rod and dunno on pj.. But i changed to gnarly and boycseen reeds since and not rejetted.

Could be air leak try spraying easystart around the engine and carb manifold whilst its running, steer well clear of air pod any increase of revs suggest air where is shouldnt be= lean.
fair play on timing, may well be time to add that base gasket to get squish larger.

 

[Harley]

Too be fair my lectron came close as std, im 1/4 leaner on rod and dunno on pj.. But i changed to gnarly and boycseen reeds since and not rejetted.

Could be air leak try spraying easystart around the engine and carb manifold whilst its running, steer well clear of air pod any increase of revs suggest air where is shouldnt be= lean.
fair play on timing, may well be time to add that base gasket to get squish larger.

Im gonna check for air leaks tomorrow although it was doing this before top end so thats concerning me if it is infact an air leak I guess it would have to be lower end.

This is what I asked earlier though - theres websites saying to go tighter on squish if theres detonation...
Im at 1mm now with thick gasket I was wondering if I add the slim too will the squish be too big? Is there any side effects of too big?

EDIT: Reading up here I have seen in a few places that increasing the head volume can help/fix the detonation either machining the head or a thicker base gasket. Ill throw the slim base gasket on top tomorrow and report back. Also waiting on shawbagga to get back to me regarding the MS3.

 

[lankydoug]

A richer needle might take care of it. If you're going to do anything but guess you really need to give numbers. For example you can use lead solder in the cyl. and rotate the crank over TDC then measure the imprinted section of the solder for thickness. This will give you a squish profile that can be sent in with your head to have it machined for your poor quality fuel. Also a cranking compression number would be nice. I have also read where some Lectron owners are marking lean spots in the throttle position and slightly grinding the flat side of the needle (by hand) to make it richer in that location. The thing is static compression and squish band is something that an experienced machinist in your area might consider when they try to help you but dynamic compression is the bottom line and has so many variables that come in to play it's impossible to give you a definitive answer to your problems. You are going to have to make one educated guess/change at a time hopefully picking the most probable based on numbers.

 

[Motosportz]

I assumed from what I read about Motosportz setup carbs that the thing would be pretty close on delivery from the info I sent - obviously I see now that they do not come with a suitable rod for the UK.

Not true, we set them up for location. But we did not know you had removed the airbox from the equation or that you were doing street riding with it. These make very different factors. UK, australia and other places get different setups. Early adopters might not have had the luxury of our ongoing experiences so they might not have got the right rod the first time. When ordering you need to give us all the details. A cone filter changes everything.

 

[Motosportz]

A richer needle might take care of it. If you're going to do anything but guess you really need to give numbers. For example you can use lead solder in the cyl. and rotate the crank over TDC then measure the imprinted section of the solder for thickness. This will give you a squish profile that can be sent in with your head to have it machined for your poor quality fuel. Also a cranking compression number would be nice. I have also read where some Lectron owners are marking lean spots in the throttle position and slightly grinding the flat side of the needle (by hand) to make it richer in that location. The thing is static compression and squish band is something that an experienced machinist in your area might consider when they try to help you but dynamic compression is the bottom line and has so many variables that come in to play it's impossible to give you a definitive answer to your problems. You are going to have to make one educated guess/change at a time hopefully picking the most probable based on numbers.

great info. A leak down test to make sure the motor is sealed and compression test to see where you are at should be the minimum if you don't want this issue to reoccur you need to know what you are working with.

 

[shawbagga]

how does the cone filter go in the wet? & am I missing something or dude wheres ya chain guide?

 

[Harley]

how does the cone filter go in the wet? & am I missing something or dude wheres ya chain guide?

Seems to keep dry and yeah its sorta stripped down at the minute, my skidplate and all sorts are off - just concentrating on the running right now.

Not true, we set them up for location. But we did not know you had removed the airbox from the equation or that you were doing street riding with it. These make very different factors. UK, australia and other places get different setups. Early adopters might not have had the luxury of our ongoing experiences so they might not have got the right rod the first time. When ordering you need to give us all the details. A cone filter changes everything.

Well that was my fault regarding info. I know running the cone means I must run richer, and I do, but do I need to go as far as richer rod richer? Again, the deto was happening with the airbox and is no worse with the cone. I don't plan on going back to the airbox as mine was done and I can only really get secondhand ones.

Again guys, leakdown would be done if I had a nice shop full of mx tools but I don't and you might find this hard to believe but you'd be incredibly hard pushed to find a genuine mx/motorcycle workshop around these lands... Theres one place I know of within about 80 miles that will balance my damn wheels. Any guys I know/heard of who race all do their own work. Spent hours making myself a flywheel puller yesterday

I can only really apologize if you think I'm mad, running in circles or otherwise. So far you guys have been great for info and direction, I owe you all one!

 

[juicypips]

Dont stress about mx shops lol most of the ines ive used have mad stupid rookie mistakes on my bikes like scratching tge sanchion on a fork seal chamge and still charging me £140 never going back there!
Balancing wheels simple order stick on lead weights jack bike up rotate wheel stop it halfway up then letgo if the wheel rotates and stops add weight to the side opposite. Rear discinnect chain and do it. No stick on lead? Use small strips wrap around the spokes.. Electrical tape to secure if you cant get them tight.

 

[justintendo]

almost all of my experience with "pod" filters comes from 4 stroke applications. but i have a decent amount of experience with them...
as far as water goes they will pass water easily unless you run an outer wear cover, this is one of the reasons an off road machine has a foam filter as it handles mud, water and dirt well. they work on the street but like the foam you must keep them oiled. i highly doubt there is any restriction going on, especially on this 125.
as far as affecting the jetting, removing the boot and airbox on a fourstroke and going to a pod setup will increase the main jet size 30-40%, or more. so i would not be surprised at all if the bike needed a different rod.
harley, are you able to take the bike out and make it "four stroke" at full throttle in the mid to upper rpms by richening the powerjet? how does the bike run with the pj 3 or 3.5 turns out? are you able to make the bike "four stroke" on bottom/mid by richening the rod?

 

[Harley]

Dont stress about mx shops lol most of the ines ive used have mad stupid rookie mistakes on my bikes like scratching tge sanchion on a fork seal chamge and still charging me £140 never going back there!
Balancing wheels simple order stick on lead weights jack bike up rotate wheel stop it halfway up then letgo if the wheel rotates and stops add weight to the side opposite. Rear discinnect chain and do it. No stick on lead? Use small strips wrap around the spokes.. Electrical tape to secure if you cant get them tight.

Yeah anywhere I know people get rebuilds done won't chat unless its a Honda/Kawasaki/Suzuki/KTM. I got some stick on weights from eBay a while back but never could get it right, I might give it another go sometime.

almost all of my experience with "pod" filters comes from 4 stroke applications. but i have a decent amount of experience with them...
as far as water goes they will pass water easily unless you run an outer wear cover, this is one of the reasons an off road machine has a foam filter as it handles mud, water and dirt well. they work on the street but like the foam you must keep them oiled. i highly doubt there is any restriction going on, especially on this 125.
as far as affecting the jetting, removing the boot and airbox on a fourstroke and going to a pod setup will increase the main jet size 30-40%, or more. so i would not be surprised at all if the bike needed a different rod.
harley, are you able to take the bike out and make it "four stroke" at full throttle in the mid to upper rpms by richening the powerjet? how does the bike run with the pj 3 or 3.5 turns out? are you able to make the bike "four stroke" on bottom/mid by richening the rod?

I have this point in mind from earlier in the thread but I have been focusing on getting rid of the detonation. The bike seems to run "ok" with the PJ 4 turns out although I haven't been getting much past mid throttle as I am concerned about how much damage the detonation is doing when it hits. I have the rod at a good setting now that works. I tried a quarter turn richer and the throttle response became pretty junk. Not gonna say "boggy" or anything as I find people have different ideas of what those words mean but whatever way it works out its certainly better where it is.

Fair point though, at no point has it really fourstroked although all I have been doing is riding down the street to see if it detonates.. The awesome shawbagga has a MS3 on it's way though so I'll see how it goes.

Didn't get a chance to try adding the other base gasket yet, but its still a plan.

 

[Motosportz]

Detonation is not usually a jetting issue but more a to much compression to low an octane issue. Make sure you sort that issue first. Then adjust carb. Most run the PJ 1/2 to 1.5 turns our. 4 is crazy and a new rod is in order. Something does not add up.

 

[Harley]

Detonation is not usually a jetting issue but more a to much compression to low an octane issue. Make sure you sort that issue first. Then adjust carb. Most run the PJ 1/2 to 1.5 turns our. 4 is crazy and a new rod is in order. Something does not add up.

I was running around 1.5 turns out though, and all seemed fine throughout the range. I had played around with the PJ and found what I liked and seemed fine to me! Just from what guys on here are saying and going crazy about our fuel I have set it to 4 to try. Again though, I haven't been up in the throttle as Im just lapping the street testing to get detonation sorted so I don't even know if I would need to come back down.\

Hey, if making my base gasket thicker solves this detonation with the reduced compression/bigger squish everything will be up in arms about jetting then!

 

[johnnyboy]

While Kelly is totally correct in what hes saying it stil boils down to our fuel - Its not just me that has suffered with detonation due to the lean type situation with the Lectron on the Husky 125 through to the 165, Spud a member here who also bought a Lectron from Kelly and also was running 41/2 out as delivered and is documentented on the forum somwhere. We have many PMs between us ect while trying to rid the dreaded knock and he also had to get Walt to do him a lower compression head. Trigs 125 also would detonate with the Lectron but was cured with a richer rod.
Now strangly I have tried the Lectron on many other bikes of all shapes and sizes and not one of them detonated but bearing in mind its been with one of my Lectrons and how I have them set and if I could explain how or why the Husky has this tendency to behave the way it does when swapping to the Lectron I would tell you but alas I have no idea all I know is they need to be richer than what other use as a setting.
Trigs 125 has to run a thick base gasket to compleatly rid the detonation with the Lectron but is fine when fitted with a PWK .
Best pump fuel you can get comes from Tescos service stations Harley but not sure if you have them where your situated

 

[juicypips]

Tescos!?! Erre no mate use shell premium. Scos is rubbish, but add a thicker basegasket sounds like the cure, less squish means the bike wont be performing as hard as it could but if it cures the detonation then i would do it in a second

 

[Harley]

Ok guys, not impressed lol.

Thick + Thin base gasket on, must be running rich enough (plug boot black, piston head black) and still detonation.

I think it MAY be lesser so but it's still there, right when Im building speed slowly down a straight it just chimes in for maybe two seconds with the hammering sound. I'm beginning to loose hope really, I really thought the extra base gasket would do it.

Solder on the head again confirms I must be >1mm.

Should I go for shits and giggles putting another thin base gasket on or would three gaskets be asking for a leak?

Some patterns on there, any insight on that? This was taken before I put the additional gasket on.

 

[johnnyboy]

You really are not having any luck at all mate are you!



Plan B is to now look at your water pump because that there piston should be spotless not baked in carbon like that already so I suspect its getting to hot

 

[johnnyboy]

Tescos!?! Erre no mate use shell premium. Scos is rubbish, but add a thicker basegasket sounds like the cure, less squish means the bike wont be performing as hard as it could but if it cures the detonation then i would do it in a second

There you go juicy ---http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=221733
Mate of mine who builds some real fast quad / outboard ect engines has done a load of dyno testing through his company and it was he that told me it came out better than any other pump fuel.

 

[juicypips]

There you go juicy ---http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=221733
Mate of mine who builds some real fast quad / outboard ect engines has done a load of dyno testing through his company and it was he that told me it came out better than any other pump fuel.

In fairness they only test tescos fuel in that review and between 95-99ron.
Ive done my share of driving in a pt cruiser and the best economy came from shell premium and texaco tescos i would literally get twenty less miles out of a tank. I didnt try their higher octane rating as it wasnt available when i had the cruiser.
I will stick to shell premium makes me happy
Nice artical tho johnny

 

[Harley]

You really are not having any luck at all mate are you!



Plan B is to now look at your water pump because that there piston should be spotless not baked in carbon like that already so I suspect its getting to hot

Yeah I ran it for a bit without coolant, I get stupider as the days go on this detonation is driving me mad in the head!

Seriously, where the hell do I go from here?!

Where I'm at now:

• Jetting is well rich - its only running in the first place because I have an iridium BR9EIX in. Tried a regular BR10EG and it fouled in two minutes...
• Squish is above 1mm - probably at or just under 1.2mm
• NOT running race fuel - running 95 pump and this is what I need to run
• Not finding any air leaks around base/head/inlet manifold/carb
• Flywheel side bearing seal looks good
• Stator plate is as far toward the direction of the engine rotation as it goes, and this is where it was in the first place

I can't strobe the timing and I can't do a leakdown.

What I'm thinking:

• Could bad fuel cause detonation? I hear 2T breaks down ethanol fuel over time and I know for sure what lies in the bowl often makes the bike run lean on startup. I usually give the bike a shake before first start to see if it helps. Is it worth trying fresh fuel? This fuel is only maybe a week old.
• Do you guys still think a richer rod will fix this considering how rich I am running now?
• Is it worth trying bigger squish again (adding another slim gasket), I know I will be effecting port timing etc but just to see if this solves it.

Other than that I'm completely stumped on this one. Hoping I don't have to just sell it and cut my losses.

 

[Motosportz]

This is the different SMR motor with the electronic PV too right?

it looks crazy rich from the pix.