I'm revalving my 45mm shivers on my 02 CR250

[Motosportz]

Thats how I have it assembled. Can you see my pic in post #34? hit refresh if you cant as I just made it public.

"If you swap the two stacks, the bike will feel REALLY shitty, because those thick shims on rebound would be a disaster." Rebound actually feels about right so I guess i got it in there correct. I guess I was assuming the pyramid shaped stack would be the rebound stack not the 4 same sized ones. Makes sense now. Thanks.

 

[MOTORHEAD]

Your rebound stack ( on the nut side ) is functioning like a check plate. Those 5 shims, with the amount of float they appear to have, aren't going to be doing any deflecting. So it's basically a check plate.

If the 22x.3 is big enough to cover the ports, then I'd just run it and the spring for your "MV" stack. Then start with the base compression stack that Kyle suggested earlier.

 

[GMP]

Yeah, your misunderstanding the configuration. Also make sure the piston itself is not backwards. Yor mid stack(what you thought rebound) is nothiong more than a stack of .3mm checkplate shims to set the float. No flex at all. On the mid side of the piston:

<piston>
22x.15 (or three 22 x .1)
20 x .1
11 x .2
11 x .2
15 x .15 (*)
16 x .15
18 x .15
<spring>

*Adjust the support thickness(15,16,18) for 1 - 1.4mm float.

So, the tap assembly will look like this:

<nut>
15 x .1
17 x .1
18 x .1
19 x .1
19 x .1
22 x .1
22 x .1
<piston>
22 x .15
20 x .1
11 x .2
11 x .2
15 x .15
16 x .15
18 x .15
<spring>
<tap>

Still had the notes on my PC here. Try it, worked good on both GG and '02 WR250 like yours. Spectro 125/150 oil.

 

[Motosportz]

thanks a bunch guys. Just got off the phone with Kyle and he also set me straight on all this. Thanks a lot Kyle. Seems is is all as it should be as is which is good because I did not want to take it all apart again. Mid valve has over 2mm float so is doing near nothing compression wise. Rebounds seems acceptable as is so will leave it for now. Forks are big improvement and I need to get the shock close so i can evaluate the front more as well. Going to leave them as is right now and work on the back and then may work on the rebound stack on the forks in the future if I find them not to my liking.

 

[Kyle Tarry]

<piston>
22x.15 (or three 22 x .1)
20 x .1
11 x .2
11 x .2
15 x .15 (*)
16 x .15
18 x .15
<spring>

*Adjust the support thickness(15,16,18) for 1 - 1.4mm float.

Another option for the mid:

22.1 (2X)
20.1
18.1
16.1
14.1
12.1
10.X
18.25 (or 18.3)

Float about 1.0mm (adjust the 10.X shim to get there).

My theory is that having a bit of taper behind the face shims helps to keep them from getting so beat up... I run something like this on my 610 (less float through because it's a bigger bike) and my brother's TE410.

Either one of these would probably work mint, if you wanted to go down that road. Right now, it sounds like Kelly's just interested in doing some base valve tweaks... I think GMP and I like the midvalve feel for the faster sandy stuff we ride in NJ.

Kelly, next time you have them apart, I'd try GMP's rebound stack. I think it would be a nice improvement, sounds like he knows these forks pretty well!

 

[Motosportz]

Your rebound stack ( on the nut side ) is functioning like a check plate. Those 5 shims, with the amount of float they appear to have, aren't going to be doing any deflecting. So it's basically a check plate.

If the 22x.3 is big enough to cover the ports, then I'd just run it and the spring for your "MV" stack. Then start with the base compression stack that Kyle suggested earlier.

I am confused by this. The 5 shims on the nut end are the rebound stack right? There is no float there right? Clamped to the piston on that side. Float is on the rod side stack mid valve. So they must flex and provide the rebound damping right? When riding the rebound feels right and in range. when sitting and grabbing the front brake and pushing it through the stroke it feels right in both directions. what am I missing in your comment?

 

[Motosportz]

Yeah, your misunderstanding the configuration. Also make sure the piston itself is not backwards. Yor mid stack(what you thought rebound) is nothiong more than a stack of .3mm checkplate shims to set the float. No flex at all. On the mid side of the piston:

<piston>
22x.15 (or three 22 x .1)
20 x .1
11 x .2
11 x .2
15 x .15 (*)
16 x .15
18 x .15
<spring>

*Adjust the support thickness(15,16,18) for 1 - 1.4mm float.

So, the tap assembly will look like this:

<nut>
15 x .1
17 x .1
18 x .1
19 x .1
19 x .1
22 x .1
22 x .1
<piston>
22 x .15
20 x .1
11 x .2
11 x .2
15 x .15
16 x .15
18 x .15
<spring>
<tap>

Still had the notes on my PC here. Try it, worked good on both GG and '02 WR250 like yours. Spectro 125/150 oil.

See post #34. now that I know the rebound stack is the same sized shims which I did not think would be the case.

rebound stack - (5x) 22.03 - .110 shims

mid valve:

22.98 - .220
22.01 - .310
19.99 - .300
18.97 - .300

with slightly more than 2mm float on soft spring. (Wich I am guessing is doing no real compression damping with this setup.

 

[GMP]

.1mm float on that fork is too tight and will beat you up, not to mention push oil through the base and cavitate. Things have to be in balance. Anything under 1mm float, with a surrvivable stack(not too soft), will be harsh in the trail trash on a 2stroke. Closed chamber is a different story as there is cavitation control. Hey, try it all and find out. All I know is it worked for us.

 

[MOTORHEAD]

OK, I guess I'm not seeing things the way they really are. It looked like there was a large space on the rebound side with a spring. Can you dismantle the MV so we can see all the parts in order?

 

[Motosportz]

Can you dismantle the MV so we can see all the parts in order?

Should have snapped a pic. Can you see the pic above? Pretty much explains it.

 

[MOTORHEAD]

This picture makes it look to me like there is a gap between the nut and the shims. I assumed there was a spring in there, which would allows them to float.

 

[Motosportz]

No rebound / nut side clamped tight as it should be and rebound seems to work fine.

 

[GMP]

Thats just clearance due to the shoulder of the tap nut or spacer thats hard to see. The assembly looks perfectly normal and stock to me, piston orientation correct as well. If there was float on that rebound stack the bike would be unridable.

 

[MOTORHEAD]

Yeah, I forgot about the zooks using that long nut.

But, regardless, I'd still drop the compression side to the 22mm shim and start with the base stack Kyle suggested.

 

[Motosportz]

But, regardless, I'd still drop the compression side to the 22mm shim and start with the base stack Kyle suggested.

On the mid valve? Going to leave them as they are now and do the shock and then see where I am at and maybe redo the forks some more. thanks guys.

 

[Kyle Tarry]

.1mm float on that fork is too tight and will beat you up, not to mention push oil through the base and cavitate. Things have to be in balance. Anything under 1mm float, with a surrvivable stack(not too soft), will be harsh in the trail trash on a 2stroke. Closed chamber is a different story as there is cavitation control. Hey, try it all and find out. All I know is it worked for us.

HA! Good catch man. I mean 1.0mm, not 0.1mm! I will go back and fix my post.

For what it's worth, I think you can go a bit under 1.0 and still be ok. I am at about 0.7 on my WR and my 610 and they both work well, although the WR can still be a bit much in the really rocky stuff.

Just for general info (not aimed at GMP), the numbers we're talking about here are only valid for OC forks in this size range. So it applies to the arz 45s, also the bigger Marz OC forks, the KYB OCs, and other OC bikes like DRZs, WR450, etc. However, the internal geometry on the CC stuff (like CRs, TXCs, etc) is way different, so you have to set the up differently. The midvalve pistons are smaller diameter, so you can get away with a lot less float, for example...

 

[MOTORHEAD]

Yes, the mid valve. The 22mm shim, if it will cover the ports, and the spring. That would be your mid valve set up.

Then go to the base valve and do a compression stack as close to what Kyle suggested as you can get.

 

[Kyle Tarry]

He's actually not too far off my suggestion right now, except he has odd shims (15, 17, 19, etc) instead of evens (Marzocchi likes to be different, apparently...). I recommended that he go smaller on the clamp, but I also had more midvalve in the mix, so it's probably a wash. It's worth mentioning that he is running thicker fork oil than we might run, I'm not positive exactly what effect that will have. That might be a good justification to go to 12mm on the clamp instead of 14mm...

Do you think it's worth changing the checkplate shims in the mid? With 2mm of float, I figure the shims don't really matter, they're just going to snap open and not control flow, right?

 

[Motosportz]

That might be a good justification to go to 12mm on the clamp instead of 14mm...

would have liked to try that but 14 was the smallest I had here ion my stash. I have a lot of shims but need to fill in the gaps of ones I dont have and might commonly use like that 12. Suggestions are where to buy shims?

 

[MOTORHEAD]

Sorry, but I can't get the reply button to do quotes anymore, but yes, I would still do the MV shims. That's why I suggested the 22 over the 23. I think it makes a big difference in this fork.