125-200cc Is there a slow movement back to smaller cc bikes?

[LawnDartMike]

Hard to beat an open class bike on fairly smooth 2-track stuff with a bit of silt thrown in. At that point the extra top end comes into play. There are areas like that in the desert where a little bike just cant keep up. Sometimes those long fenceline whoop runs will also sap all the torque you can throw at it.

Anyplace else and the smaller bike is certainly competitive and less tiring.

I think some of it would also depend on the rider's weight. Sand, the 144 and my lard butt 230 lbs would probably not be a great combination.

 

[firffighter]

My only concerns are my weight and no fuss. I bought the KDX, WR, and even the gasser because you could just hop on and ride.

Sounds like the 125 is a bit fussy, whereas the 250/300 would be more forgiving in that department.

BTW, I am planning on the enduro at EFR in Oct. Anyone do this event before? Hoping to have new bike by then

 

[firffighter]

My only concerns are my weight and no fuss. I bought the KDX, WR, and even the gasser because you could just hop on and ride.

Sounds like the 125 is a bit fussy, whereas the 250/300 would be more forgiving in that department.

BTW, I am planning on the enduro at EFR in Oct. Anyone do this event before? Hoping to have new bike by then

 

[speedkills]

My 2009 WR125 was fussy before the carb swap and, afterwords it has been smooth sailing. When collecting stories about them make sure you are comparing the bike you might actually buy, not one of the first bikes before the updated powervalves were released, or a 125 if what you are really after is a 144. There may be only a 15% difference in displacement but there is a huge difference in riding style. I shift half as much with the 144 as I did with the 125.

We tend to lump them together in discussion but if you sort through carefully you will find a large difference in the experiences of guys running 125s with Mikuni carbs vs the guys running 144s with Keihin carbs.

As for the KDX, it was unpredictable for me, it wasn't just that it would oversteer or understeer, it's that it would (seemingly) randomly do one or the other every corner. I think it came down to having far too much weight on the rear tire compared to a modern chassis.

Not that I'm a chassis builder but most people would agree you'd never have a decent handling car if 70% of the weight was on the front or rear tires (hello any pickup truck), a decent handling car almost always has about 50% front and 50% rear. Seems like it is the same with bikes, where the KDX had a huge rear end weight bias. Plus the cramped ergos and crap suspension, but even if I fixed those I don't think it would ever handle great with the front so light. I ride the front pretty hard on my WR, hard to think how far I'd have to get on a KDX to make it work well, maybe I could just mount the footpegs to the triple clamps?

 

[oregonsage]

My only concerns are my weight and no fuss. I bought the KDX, WR, and even the gasser because you could just hop on and ride.

Sounds like the 125 is a bit fussy, whereas the 250/300 would be more forgiving in that department.

BTW, I am planning on the enduro at EFR in Oct. Anyone do this event before? Hoping to have new bike by then

Do you mean the Fall Classic?

 

[firffighter]

I was wondering about the "Fort Enduro". 1st of Nov.

It seems like the 125 "dialed in" would have the keihn carbon and 144 kit. I was interested in an '09 since prices are so low.

 

[wallybean]

I agree with Shane. Since I went to the 144 and installed the Keihin it has been wonderful. I currently swap back and forth between the 144 and the 167 simply because I like to. They have definitely different personalities. The 144 does everything the 125 does only better with more. The 167 is a tight woods single track king but gives up some topend rev to the 144. Takes all of 45 minutes to swap between the two if you are in a hurry..... You got to love working on the small WR.

Walt

PS, I am 225 ready to ride and either one will take me anywhere.

 

[letitsnow]

My 2009 WR125 was fussy before the carb swap and, afterwords it has been smooth sailing. When collecting stories about them make sure you are comparing the bike you might actually buy, not one of the first bikes before the updated powervalves were released, or a 125 if what you are really after is a 144. There may be only a 15% difference in displacement but there is a huge difference in riding style. I shift half as much with the 144 as I did with the 125.

We tend to lump them together in discussion but if you sort through carefully you will find a large difference in the experiences of guys running 125s with Mikuni carbs vs the guys running 144s with Keihin carbs.

As for the KDX, it was unpredictable for me, it wasn't just that it would oversteer or understeer, it's that it would (seemingly) randomly do one or the other every corner. I think it came down to having far too much weight on the rear tire compared to a modern chassis.

Not that I'm a chassis builder but most people would agree you'd never have a decent handling car if 70% of the weight was on the front or rear tires (hello any pickup truck), a decent handling car almost always has about 50% front and 50% rear. Seems like it is the same with bikes, where the KDX had a huge rear end weight bias. Plus the cramped ergos and crap suspension, but even if I fixed those I don't think it would ever handle great with the front so light. I ride the front pretty hard on my WR, hard to think how far I'd have to get on a KDX to make it work well, maybe I could just mount the footpegs to the triple clamps?

That all makes sense.

 

[oregonsage]

I was wondering about the "Fort Enduro". 1st of Nov.

It seems like the 125 "dialed in" would have the keihn carbon and 144 kit. I was interested in an '09 since prices are so low.

http://www.omraoffroad.com/calendar.htm

Fort Rock Nov 7. I expect that will be fairly open terrain but I dont actually know what the course is.

 

[PC.]

I want a WR150, but only cause I already have a WR300. Not sure I could live with it as an only bike though cause I am a power junkie. I rarely can use it all, but I still want it there and on-tap.

Follow up.....
I got to spend a little time riding a 09' WR144 this weekend in some really technical woods and it was awesome. It took a while to get acquainted after riding the 300 all day, but once I shook off the cobwebs I was having a blast.

My hot rodder mentality (and 215lbs) tells me a 125/144 is too small a motor for me, but in reality it was fine. Better than fine even. I only had 2 struggles while riding the bike. First, the ability to loft the front wheel over obstacles. I could not get the bike to wheelie for the life of me. My wr300 technique is to give a shot of gas and watch the front end fly. Not so with the small bore. I need practice!

Second was how planted the tires felt. The bike made excellent traction moving forward or going through corners, but the light weight of the bike did not allow the tires to stick as well as my 300 while coasting downhills off the power. I attempted to avoid some trail trash by putting the front tire up an embankment, but the tire slid, I ate crap and got drug down the trail under the bike for a bit. Not an issue with the bike, just something I wasn't prepared for or expecting.

Handling and flickability were insane. It felt like 1/2 my 300 on the trails. I almost crashed my brains out at first by braking too early and hard. The lack of weight really took some time for me to adjust to. I loved how I could really control the rear end of the bike using my legs. Steering and front end feel were great. I never thought about the front end once... it just felt perfect from the start.

I could certainly be happy owning of these for technical wood riding. I'm still trying to wrap my brain around how quickly I could move through the trees using so little energy. The motor sounds like its screaming, but I didn't feel like I was moving that fast until I'd catch up to my buddies and start pressuring them with relative ease. I guess 50hp really is overkill when you're averaging 8mph in the woods rofessor:

All in all, it was very easy to ride and much less tiring than the 300. I would be head-over-heels in lust had I not laid it down and scared myself. I guess I was feeling a little too good and it bit me in the ass. With my own setup and more seat time i think this bike would really improve my riding. I'm feeling kinda stagnant in the woods on the 300 as I tend to ride using power and muscle in favor of technique. This bike is all about rider input and technique. I think I want one. I need a little more seat time to be sure, but I think this is the next bike I'll own.

 

[jmetteer]

I attempted to avoid some trail trash by putting the front tire up an embankment, but the tire slid, I ate crap and got drug down the trail under the bike for a bit. Not an issue with the bike, just something I wasn't prepared for or expecting.

Didn't happen to look at the front tire did you? It is almost a year old and missing most of the side knobs... Shane is liking the sliding effect and feels it is making him a better rider. I think he is right.

Later,

 

[speedkills]

Oops, I guess I should warn everyone about my tire when I let them hop on the bike. I have always been a big believe in good tires and usually don't let them get anywhere near that worn but that said I have always sucked when I started pushing the limits of traction. As part of an experiment/training this summer I have decided not to replace my tires until the mud comes no matter how bad they get, and they're getting bad

The cool thing for me is that it has let me finally get used to riding a bike closer to it's limits, I not longer freak out and drop the bike every time the front pushes in a corner, I just get up over it a bit and apply a little body english until it grips again. Time will tell but I think when I finally do put some fresh tires on again I'll really notice a difference in my overall speed.

It seems to translate well to other bikes too, I put some time on a kdx 220 Sunday and while I still think they handle like crap I was able to handle it much better, both ends kept randomly letting go but I was able to keep it together and ride it out without ending up on the ground. Well except when trying to turn the bike around, but other than that I kept it on two wheels.

 

[PC.]

Didn't happen to look at the front tire did you? It is almost a year old and missing most of the side knobs... Shane is liking the sliding effect and feels it is making him a better rider. I think he is right.

Later,

Nope. I missed that minor detail.
He needs a new mechanic

I'm a fan of side knobs!

 

[PC.]

Well except when trying to turn the bike around, but other than that I kept it on two wheels.

Sorry Shane. Gotta post it.
http://vimeo.com/14556360

 

[speedkills]

... First, the ability to loft the front wheel over obstacles. I could not get the bike to wheelie for the life of me. My wr300 technique is to give a shot of gas and watch the front end fly. Not so with the small bore. I need practice!

What do you mean small bore, that cylinder kit I ordered clearly said "Big Bore" on it

I don't think I mentioned it earlier but that is another difference for me with the 144 vs the 125, I absolutely could not pick the front end up on the 125, I just got used to bashing it into things to keep my speed. On the 144 I have no problem at all, just dab the clutch and it pops right up over root step ups and things like that. If there is a light bump or rise first I can do it on the throttle alone like entering whoops.

That 300 felt like a beast out there. That bike would be seriously fast in the desert but would just kick my ass in singletrack. For two bikes that look so similar it was shocking how much of a shift there was from nimbleness to stability going from the 144 to 300 although I imagine most of that was the different chassis and steering damper setup.

 

[speedkills]

Sorry Shane. Gotta post it.
http://vimeo.com/14556360

See what I mean people, that KDX clearly has handling problems

 

[PC.]

See what I mean people, that KDX clearly has handling problems

KDX... are those your initials?

That was great! I've made plenty of highlight reels over the years, so I especially enjoy it when someone else does the honors.
All in good fun


I think with some seat time and knobs I'd be happier than a pig n' poo with that bike. It really felt like 1/2 my 300 and that's a huge plus in the woods when you're getting tired. I'll try the clutch pop technique and shift my weight back more...those are bad habits of riding the 300 as it does all the work in those scenarios.

I'll fix my bars before next time so you can get some quality time in on the 300. Bent bars aren't the easiest obstacle to overcome when riding a new bike!

 

[firffighter]

Great report coming from a 300 rider.

Does the 125/144 deflect? I noticed this big time on my KTM200's. Because of the light weight, the bike would deflect off of obstacles rather than track. I know this is a big trade off with a light wieght bike vs. something heavier.

I do like a bike that is stable and tracks well. The Gasgas did a great job of this, but it had full Ohlins suspension and a Scotts stablizer which probably helped a ton.

Anyway, great report and I am still riding the fence. I am leaning toward a WR250.

I also wonder about the TXC250 since I am having a blast on my sons WR250f. Any comparisons with the TXC vs. WR125?

 

[speedkills]

Yes it deflects. Or maybe bounces is a better word? The weight is part of it but on my bike it feels like more of it is the front suspension, it is much harsher than nearly every other bike I ride. It feels nice and controlled when I am pushing hard and going faster, and slamming into the whoops isn't a scary experience as it can be on a bike with softer suspension but the tradeoff is that I catch little bits of air over rocks and roots that my old GasGas and KDX would just track over. I'm still getting used to it, and unsure if I want to change it or not. One one hand I could get better traction with more compliant suspension but on the other hand I am starting to learn to bounce over stuff that previously I could not. I will come into a section of three or four big roots, hit the first, and pop over the next few which feels pretty damn good.

Then again, barely feeling them on my GasGas was mighty nice too.

 

[Trailridernut]

There is very little corralation between size of a bikes regarding deflection... like the vast majority of bikes unless you fit the parameters the bike was setup for you will have issues. The first thing I do with bikes is breaking the bike(motor/suspension) in and having the suspension setup via sag/springs/valving etc... the single best $500+ dollars you can spend on a bike!! When I say this, this is in regards to comparing 2 strokes vs. 2 strokes... the torque steer of the 4 stroke has it's own issues regarding suspension and is another topic.
Hopefully guys like Drew Smith will chime in...

Does the 125/144 deflect? I noticed this big time on my KTM200's. Because of the light weight, the bike would deflect off of obstacles rather than track. I know this is a big trade off with a light wieght bike vs. something heavier.
QUOTE]