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Hi everyone,
As you all know, Coffee (Dean) passed away a couple of years ago. I am Dean's ex-wife's husband and happen to have spent my career in tech. Over the years, I occasionally helped Dean with various tech issues.
When he passed, I worked with his kids to gather the necessary credentials to keep this site running. Since then (and for however long they worked with Coffee), Woodschick and Dirtdame have been maintaining the site and covering the costs. Without their hard work and financial support, CafeHusky would have been lost.
Over the past couple of weeks, I’ve been working to migrate the site to a free cloud compute instance so that Woodschick and Dirtdame no longer have to fund it. At the same time, I’ve updated the site to a current version of XenForo (the discussion software it runs on). The previous version was outdated and no longer supported.
Unfortunately, the new software version doesn’t support importing the old site’s styles, so for now, you’ll see the XenForo default style. This may change over time.
Coffee didn’t document the work he did on the site, so I’ve been digging through the old setup to understand how everything was running. There may still be things I’ve missed. One known issue is that email functionality is not yet working on the new site, but I hope to resolve this over time.
Thanks for your patience and support!
PCV...to autoune or not to autotune, that is the question
- Thread starter ascribner
- Start date
jerbear610
Husqvarna
Pro Class
I've been kicking around that same thing. I've got the PCV on my 511 and finally all is well with my FI. I don't know enough about the Autotune and
what it does to give an answer but so far I'm pretty happy with what I've got now. I'm sure Tinken could shed some light on this.
what it does to give an answer but so far I'm pretty happy with what I've got now. I'm sure Tinken could shed some light on this.
Not really. The Auto Tune works quick enough - though there are settings to adjust how fast and how much those are adjusted.
I did a significant amount of work in 2009 on 2009, 2008, and at least 1 2010 bike. The autotune works great. Personally if I had a Power Commander I would consider a Autotune a necessity.
Dynojet builds maps for steady state and acceleration. There are no values filled in for the higher rpms with small throttle openings i.e. deceleration. Autotune fills those cells in.
On the other hand, if I owned an efi bike that ran reasonably smooth/well, I would probably at least consider JD's tuner setup if I wanted the bike even better. But in 2008 & 2009 they ran really bad & the PC was the only option available at that time, and that was because I drove to vegas with some bikes for them to test.
Let me guess, Ty Davis is now a Dyno Jet dealer...
Rearwheelin
Husqvarna
Pro Class
Notice the green bar graph on the right of the monitor in the vid, that's your air fuel ratio. When the graph is inthe green your at the best balance . A power comander dyno tunned right will keep it in the green all the time. When the graph dips into the yellow it's lean, blue rich. If you want to spend 3 times the money go for it 
ascribner
Husqvarna
AA Class
Notice the green bar graph on the right of the monitor in the vid, that's your air fuel ratio. When the graph is inthe green your at the best balance . A power comander dyno tunned right will keep it in the green all the time. When the graph dips into the yellow it's lean, blue rich. If you want to spend 3 times the money go for it
How else are you going to properly manage fuel delivery on this bike? PCV+AT seem to be the only way.
Rearwheelin
Husqvarna
Pro Class
Pcv + at is a awesome unit ! The JD is more for guys who have a good understanding how to jet carbs. . There is a element of guess work with the JD tuner . The only way you can jet a bike or program the EFI to the nats ass in with a dyno tunner. A great feature with pcv is you can carry 3 programs. Good thing about JD is I can tune on the trail, I can go from 0-10,000 feet in elevation and the stock ECM will correct my air fuel ratio automatically , you need to flip to a different program on pcv. Also pcv is expandable for all sorts of add ons like auto shifts, clutchless up shifts, it really is the shit. But for me $189 and a $100 tip to a friend with a dyno tunner works good enough. My bike has gained a hugh amount of power compared to stock. The best gains you are going to get for the money is in intake, exhaust and JD
ascribner
Husqvarna
AA Class
Intake and exhaust are in the works. I had a JD tuner, but sold it before even trying it. This is a commuter/fun bike only, so I just want to keep it simple, even if that means spending a bit more money. You are looking at $300 easy to have the JD and a dyno tune. Typically more since I don't have a buddy with a dyno. But we will say $300 for simplicity. For me, the PCV is $299 adn the AT is $209. So I spend an extra $200. I will cover that cost very quickly in the time I could bill for consulting versus hauling my bike over to a tuner and waiting for a tune. After this thread, it is a no-brainer for me to just get the PCV+AT.
I appreciate the input.
Rearwheelin
Husqvarna
Pro Class
No prob , have fun with it ! I can do full blown wheel stands starting over 70 mph
get a bunch of thumbs up from the drivers on the freeway too ha ha
ascribner
Husqvarna
AA Class
No prob , have fun with it ! I can do full blown wheel stands starting over 70 mph
I am sure my bike could do that too...rider skill lacking....
vintageveloce
Husqvarna
AA Class
I have the PCV and AT. And I have other bikes without the AT that have been tuned on a Dyno. Frankly, the tunes done on a Dyno are usually just done at full throttle. The dyno guys do NOT get the injection tuned at all throttle openings and revs. OK, well, maybe you could pay for some more time and get them to try and tune at some other throttle positions, but it's a tough job, I've never seen anyone do it because the customer is just thrilled to see the full throttle dyno chart. So that is a major advantage of the AutoTune: your bike gets tuned for optimal A/F at all revs and throttle openings.
The negative to the autotune is to make it work best you need to check up on it with a PC while it figures out the new tables. For instance, the autotune is limited to a 20% TRIM adjustment, and my bike needed more than that in some cells, so I needed to ACCEPT the 20% and let it adjust even more on top of that. It really does work remarkably well, but you should plug your pc in a couple times over a couple hundred miles and accept the trims. Once I'm confident my trims are all good, I may remove the O2 sensor and AT and keep it safe on the shelf. The O2 sensor is in a possibly fragile location if you drop the bike on the side.
Carl
The negative to the autotune is to make it work best you need to check up on it with a PC while it figures out the new tables. For instance, the autotune is limited to a 20% TRIM adjustment, and my bike needed more than that in some cells, so I needed to ACCEPT the 20% and let it adjust even more on top of that. It really does work remarkably well, but you should plug your pc in a couple times over a couple hundred miles and accept the trims. Once I'm confident my trims are all good, I may remove the O2 sensor and AT and keep it safe on the shelf. The O2 sensor is in a possibly fragile location if you drop the bike on the side.
Carl
Personally, I think that is a positive.
Took a bike out with a PowerCommander & Autotune and had the % allowed set to 33% cause we did not want to spend all day developing the map - then at some point the bike was ridden into a position that no bike should be in while still running and throttle closed (cannot remember exactly - upside down, on its side for a long time, something like that).
The autotune was quite happy to change the cells to the max allowed (33%) for the bike in that position & throttle closed.
Then once the bike was vertical and in a ridable position, it would no longer start cause the cells were so far off. If we had left the allowed change to be 20%, I am sure it could have been at least started.
vintageveloce
Husqvarna
AA Class
@Coffee: You are correct, the 20% limit is a good thing! I just meant that the negative was the need to understand the software and use the pc several times. In many cases (those that will require significantly more than 20% trim from the base map) you can't just plug in the AutoTune and forget it if you want optimal tuning.
I'll add another note. The trims I have ended up with almost seem to vary without reason. I mean some cells will be up and others down in relatively close proximity on the map. If you graphed the map, it definitely wouldn't be a smooth wave. If this really is optimal, it would indicate that the other tuners that only allow a crude adjustment of say the low, high and mid ranges are possibly really missing out. Alternatively, it could just mean that the map is pretty variable based on every ride and the conditions at the moment, and maybe the last 10% differences in those cells doesn't matter.
I'll add another note. The trims I have ended up with almost seem to vary without reason. I mean some cells will be up and others down in relatively close proximity on the map. If you graphed the map, it definitely wouldn't be a smooth wave. If this really is optimal, it would indicate that the other tuners that only allow a crude adjustment of say the low, high and mid ranges are possibly really missing out. Alternatively, it could just mean that the map is pretty variable based on every ride and the conditions at the moment, and maybe the last 10% differences in those cells doesn't matter.
ascribner
Husqvarna
AA Class
Seeing that you are in SoCal, it may not be applicable, but curious if it has to do anything with the weather conditions. Weather will affect the AF. Having something attached that will compensate seems like the way to go.
vintageveloce
Husqvarna
AA Class
@ascriber: Certainly weather does have a real effect.
But note my table now has cells as large as -50! You can't get to that without accepting the trim 3 times. And there are lots of cells above 20, that would require at least one trim "accept" to reach.
Most of these large adjustments are at less than 10% throttle opening. Certainly most of the big stuff is below 40% throttle So they aren't critical for a racer who is whacking the throttle wide open.
Take a look:
I should note, that as a relative newbie to the dirt, I don't use much throttle. So it could be that I'm just not using enough to be getting changes in those high % throttle cells. And of course the bike never stays at low RPM with the throttle way open either. ;-) So I wouldn't expect much correction in the upper right of the chart regardless.
A similar situation exists in the bottom left of the chart... you don't get to high RPMs with a small throttle opening, so that part of the chart stays pretty empty too.
But note my table now has cells as large as -50! You can't get to that without accepting the trim 3 times. And there are lots of cells above 20, that would require at least one trim "accept" to reach.
Most of these large adjustments are at less than 10% throttle opening. Certainly most of the big stuff is below 40% throttle So they aren't critical for a racer who is whacking the throttle wide open.
Take a look:
I should note, that as a relative newbie to the dirt, I don't use much throttle. So it could be that I'm just not using enough to be getting changes in those high % throttle cells. And of course the bike never stays at low RPM with the throttle way open either. ;-) So I wouldn't expect much correction in the upper right of the chart regardless.
A similar situation exists in the bottom left of the chart... you don't get to high RPMs with a small throttle opening, so that part of the chart stays pretty empty too.
Rearwheelin
Husqvarna
Pro Class
She purrs good enough with none DOT desert AT's , 4 lb tubes , 6th gear power wheelies, 100mph .... About 290 lbs fully fueled decked out offroad bikeCheck it out
I did.
Cruising along and want to slow down - close throttle while the engine is at higher rpms. 6000? 5000?
Though I suppose that is a reflection of my old and slow riding...