FE/FC ¿PDS or link suspension?

[Husq]

Last 13th of March there was the National Spanish Enduro Race in Cañamero. I did a video in which you can see the difference between KTM and Husqvarna climbing a hill. The first is Iván Cervantes, world enduro champion, with the new KTM 2017, and then Josep García with the new 2017 Husqvarna. Both pilots are profesionals, so their suspensions are prepared. But there are a big difference in the climbing. Ktm is more stable than Husqvarna. ¿Is the PDS the difference?
¿What do you think about?

 

[Brapman629]

I always seem to see off road guys favoring the PDS, Moto guys the linkage. Always heard the PDS seems to keep the rear wheel planted better too. That being said I own both and cant tell much of a difference. That video does make Cervantes look smoother though.

 

[AndrewS]

I agree that the KTM looks better in that climb, but I don't think one video of two different riders is enough to make a conclusion about PDS vs linkage. Could be a bike setup thing, could be a line thing, could just be that Garcia is more fatigued.

 

[juicypips]

Could be the different line, the rebound on linkage firmer as some like it hard.
Personally if the back wheels doing more work than i am then im happy.

 

[lankydoug]

I agree that the KTM looks better in that climb, but I don't think one video of two different riders is enough to make a conclusion about PDS vs linkage. Could be a bike setup thing, could be a line thing, could just be that Garcia is more fatigued.

I totally agree. You can also see a difference in rider body position causing the Husky to unload the rear off a kicker and lose traction. I've ridden KTMs with linkage (SX model) and the PDS and much prefer the linkage... I've followed behind friends on PDS and I'm convinced that the P stands for Pogo. I'm pretty sure that any of it can be sprung and valved to work but by design the linkage must be more forgiving.

 

[Norman Foley]

Both riders are on Factory Teams, so you would assume that they both have top of the line Works WP Traxx rear shocks. They both ride 250 4T in EWC, so is that what they are riding in the Spanish Championship? Cervantes is a multiple time EWC Champion and much more experienced than Garcia, who was EWC Youth Cup Vice Champion last year. Cervantes may just be riding better right there, with all his experience.

 

[racemx904]

There are so many variables you cant even really compare....

If they only set up their bikes for uphill rocky sections.... yes it was better that time....

The problem is you ride a range of terrain over the course of a race and it is easier to set a linkage bike up for that... The reason some KTM guys prefer PDS is ground clearance which is a totally bogus reason....

basically each person will fell different on each type of bike, be it a 250f, 350, 450 or the 2 strokes... riding style, skill level and really even just how good that rider is at conveying what the suspension is doing good or bad for the suspension guy to fix....

 

[cjVOR]

I have a 350 with revalved PDS and a 501 with stock shock/linkage. The PDS works very well in the tight while the link works better out in the open and in my judgement steers more from the rear as opposed to the PDS steering more from the front. I think it is because the rear end is noticeably higher on the PDS even with the eccentric bushing that I have to help lower the rear. The conditions in the video to me would be better for a linkage so it could be suspension setup or rider influenced. In general I like the linkage better although if I only rode really tight woods it would be the PDS bike. Just my opinion...

 

[Norman Foley]

I just bought a '16 KTM 200 XC-W and I'm slightly shocked at how well the stock suspension as a whole and the PDS works. Tight technical or wide open and fast, it's excellent and the bike handles well. My previous PDS bike, a '12 Husaberg TE250 just didn't work this well. That bike had pretty much put me off any thoughts of another PDS bike. I only bought the KTM 200, because they never had a comparable Husky model and I thought if I liked the motor and not the chassis.... I'd just swap the 200 motor into my TE125. Pleasantly surprised.

 

[Roger Henry]

CTS was awesome. I don't understand why it is not the standard. Ty Davis said he had a simple fix for its minor negative of standing up in aggressive motocross cornering.

 

[racemx904]

It was good for some stuff but too unconventional to stick....

 

[ghte]

Follow a PDS bike down a steep rutted hill, the bikes rear end breaks left and right constantly. The linkage clearly soaks up the impacts better and tracks straighter imho

 

[PC.]

I bought a PDS bike 2 years ago after owning only linkage bikes and I never want to see a linkage again in my life. Not only do I feel the PDS works as good as the link for my style of riding, but the maintenance benefits are off the charts.

 

[Huskynoobee]

This could be the next tire or oil thread.

 

[ohmygewd]

Both have their places and are as equally as good in today's age...if we were talking about the PDS of the early 2000's then l would say a link was superior. But with better valving, better tuners and chassis that really suit the PDS, l'd say a PDS is a touch better than a link in tight, technical riding than a link BUT only after mods.

 

[Weantright]

If it was better other brands would have adapted!

 

[ohmygewd]

If it was better other brands would have adapted!

Why and pay royalties to KTM/WP group?
It isn't a question whether one is "better" then the other, just that a manufacturer saw it as a way to be innovative under the guise of cost cutting and weight saving but at the same time having a rear unit that worked the same way as a traditional link system...it's taken them nearly 20 years to perfect the linkless system (combined with chassis development) with a product that has a character of it's own.

When l say a touch better, keep in mind l've had 20+ years of linkage bikes to a total d 1.5 years on a PDS, the PDS provides me better feedback for roots and rocks in slow ST terrains but feels harsh in highspeed, big jumps, fire trails type riding which is why they need a good suspension tuner and a progressive spring to get close to a link system for that situation - even then a link system still feels plushier.

IMO, choice whatever bike floats your boat and enjoy riding it...if it doesn't work it out then sell it

 

[Brapman629]

I spent 7 solid years on PDS KTM's of all flavors, now I'm on a linkage Husky. Can I tell a difference? Nope. Anything it may be doing differently I just assume is me or the fact I'm riding a new bike lol. Maybe if I could ride a new 350xcf-w back to back I could pin point something. I give PDS a win for maintenance and simplicity though. I think out of the half dozen PDS bikes I've had, I replaced one heim joint, and that bike had 248hrs on the clock.

 

[Weantright]

ohmygewd - No royalties would be paid because the patents are up. Also Yamaha and other manufactures have had PDS type systems. PDS type systems are not new or innovated just cheaper. Lighter is in the complete package not with PDS, why are the SXF/XCF line just as or lighter then a PDS??? You post one isn't "better" but then you go and say the linkage is plusher, better in high speeds, big bumps and fire roads. Point is a PDS system has a small window of tuning while a linkage will work better for all around riding and much better when set-up for specific type of discipline. This is why the competition hasn't gone to a PDS type suspension. KTM needed something to differentiate the models and after 20+ years these models are but gone with a few road legal bikes. These models are gone because of downsizing not design/cost. Why have two systems when one works in more conditions, places and models then the other.

 

[Steve Kanya]

My buddy and I swapped bikes last week in nasty single track here in north jersey. He has a 2016 KTM 350EXC with stock fork and a stiffer PDS spring. I have a WER tuned 2014 FE 250 with MX Tech fork internals and a bladder in the shock and heavier springs front and rear. I have to say the KTM was the best PDS bike I have ridden yet and the stock fork was good. After we road the bikes I asked Wookie what he thought of my Huskie and he was amazed at how much more stable the suspension felt than his. I felt the same way. Oddly we both thought the KTM felt much lighter but a bit twitchy in the rocks. He said the Huskie felt stable like his old XR600 which he loved. The new EXCs are damn good stock in my opinion and worlds better than my stock Huskie which was dangerous in the rocks until Drew did his magic. I imagine a tuner could make the new PDS bikes as good or better than they have ever been and as good as my link bike in the single track.