Poll - Torque limiter failures on 449/511

[huskylove]

Either would work. I would like to see a solid or welded transfer gear and a more forgiving clutch than another transfer gear/torque limiter.

I think if your design is similar to how I describe allowing 360 degrees of slip then mechanical lockup, then slip again. "ratcheting" type. It would cure our problems because the limiter would be no longer able to slip full rotations which will heat and "anneal" the plates as you have described previously. Thus the amount of slip would be MECHANICALLY limited. Vs friction. This is what we need. Also how many people have broken gears? On ANY bike?

Can we get a picture of the gears in the 449/511 vs the gears in a crf450r or comparable bike? Maybe older husky 450/510's?

I still think the clutch idea is onto something. Solid transfer gear, a more forgiving clutch = win win. Also back torque limiting (slipper) which is something most of the supermoto guys pay 1000$ for all the time.

 

[Motosportz]

I got 6000 miles out of my original one with thicker oil and the stock breather. Hoping for 10K out of this one with thinner oil and relocated breather. I'm 100% fine with that as I'll have the motor out for a piston and rings then anyway. I found the motor surprisingly EZ to pull.

 

[Tinken]

That's almost the exact answer I got when I asked to produce another TL. That we have improved the oem life span already and it wasn't feasible at this time to manufacture the new design.

 

[Big Timmy]

Re-design a new one then. I'll buy one myself. Did I say it was new and exiting? A new one would be new and exiting.

Since the Torque limiter problem goes all the way back to 2009 in the BMWs. Its a step in the right direction, so it really is progress if it can still be used as it is.

We don't have any other options do we?

It beats the hell out of nothing!

We can thank Wolfgang, who ever he is from Dakar 2012 then.

I've never spoken to him but I've heard enough promises and BS on here alone to last a lifetime.

I've never seen such a needed item discussed with such closed minded resistance.

Providing a service is all about doing something that would benefit many. Not benefit ones self.

If the only thing that has been done is discuss this problem and argue to the point of agreeing not to agree, that's still progress.

 

[Tinken]

Re-design a new one then. I'll buy one myself. Did I say it was new and exiting? A new one would be new and exiting.

Since the Torque limiter problem goes all the way back to 2009 in the BMWs. Its a step in the right direction, so it really is progress if it can still be used as it is.

We don't have any other options do we?

It beats the hell out of nothing!

We can thank Wolfgang, who ever he is from Dakar 2012 then.

I've never spoken to him but I've heard enough promises and BS on here alone to last a lifetime.

I've never seen such a needed item discussed with such closed minded resistance.

Providing a service is all about doing something that would benefit many. Not benefit ones self.

If the only thing that has been done is discuss this problem and argue to the point of agreeing not to agree, that's still progress.

...

 

[Dangermouse449]

I got 6000 miles out of my original one with thicker oil and the stock breather. Hoping for 10K out of this one with thinner oil and relocated breather. I'm 100% fine with that as I'll have the motor out for a piston and rings then anyway. I found the motor surprisingly EZ to pull.

I'm hoping mine lasts too
I've run 5w40 bike oil since the 1st change & don't do much flat-stick high speed straight line stuff.
3900km now, thinking about a new bike next year.......
Fingers crossed

 

[Dangermouse449]

Has anyone run a 'solidised' (not even sure that's a word, just made it up) TL & a cush-drive hub??

 

[9880sts]

i am going to put up a few more infos tonight.
Shime size and inner diameter .

This can he;b to get a few spare one. Also going to take a few more detailed pictures of the single parts.
I m also installing a different type of shim tonight , it more like using parts of the old TL to get where i want to have it.

My aim is around 250-300 NM in hot condition.

 

[Motosportz]

I've never spoken to him but I've heard enough promises and BS on here alone to last a lifetime.

I've never seen such a needed item discussed with such closed minded resistance.

Not sure what you are getting at here. Seems like a very informational thread with several people contributing good info.

 

[9880sts]

It is all good you guys. Its called progress.

Kelly, your own Torque Limiter as tested by Tinken on the fixture was as high as 280 Ft Lbs. Or 380.8 Newton Meters. That's more than his own at 328 NM. These test numbers are all relevant but lets forget the Factory Laser markings. As long as it doesn't slip and it doesn't break the transmission at the same time, that's good. The assembly bolt is still doing the job in your bikes as well, at tested numbers way higher than the Nominal value of a maximum 245 NM as is the range of factory replacements available to all of us. It was designed or intended for that range. If that's the case and the tested numbers are that high and the bolt is still holding up alright, I mean isn't it?

So what I'm getting at is, possibly Re-shimming a used Torque Limiter assembly back together again if the plates are prepped for reassembly. They aren't damaged to the point of being annealed or possibly even breaking open a new one perhaps and by shimming it tighter we could come up with some pretty high numbers even with its current design. I also realize that by increasing the internal shims thickness to tighten it up, it would or could effectively make it a bit wider externally. For that you would just remove the installed bearing on the outer face side of the TL and decrease the shim behind the bearing to compensate for it now having a thicker shim internally. So as not to increase its overall previous assembled thickness. If that is even actually necessary. Who Knows? These outside external, behind the outer bearing shims are available from any dealer in a package of 3 thicknesses, I have a package of them myself.

I'm not trying to put Tinken on trial here. I am throwing some numbers out here because it breaks down to that in the end ultimately. I'm just throwing down some relevant thoughts for trying to come up with an option to increase it's breakaway point without really causing damage to the engines transmission. This is what we have to work with at this time. What else can we do to modify the offending part now and not have it tear things up by doing so? I am running a full recirculation set up myself. I also know I am hard on parts. I have the old ones to prove it. So why not try to do this. What do we as a group have to lose?

I have one that I replaced that has very low hours (like less than 30 hours total) and it hasn't been tested since removal. I just replaced it because the engine was out. I would volunteer it up for playing around with.

I also have a brand new one in the box here at my house in the garage and a few old worn out ones in a box somewhere at my shop. Tinken has about 40 of em'.

I could also build a holding fixture and socket myself in a few hours if necessary. If I wanted to do this for myself but being so skeptical myself, who would believe me? Besides that who would benefit? Mine in my bike is OK for now but an option towards a simple solution to the TL would be great for all of us.

there is no way in hell a STOCK TL will hold 380NM ....Come on people !!!
I just sheared one at 350NM.. Thats more torque then we use to tighten 8330 John Deere Tractor Wheel Bolts !!! We are talking a 350 HP massive Agriculture TRActor.

I just say , i had enough of this Fucked up TL thing. I managed to set mine in Cold with Oil to 260NM. And people that feels damn shit heavy.

PLus a Bike with 73 some HP and a Stock TL limiter wont last. DOnt tell people that. ... In the interest of a Husqvarna Dealer ship, why should there be more Information come out. Sell Parts and Labour thats the motto.

i will put some more info here.. broken discs etc... 350NM my a.... I was hanging on that thing with a 3/4 Torque wrench plus a damn pipe over it. I had trouble holding on to the thing. i am 6'4' and 240lbs in English.

THIS is a 8330 Tractor.
Just thought i upload a Picture (real life) of it for the non AG experienced people.


Check the inner spline !!! its fukn gone . it broke at 350 NM ********************************************************************************

 

[Dangermouse449]

Torque limit reached.....

 

[Big Timmy]

"Wolfgang" from Dakar 2012. Is who I said I never spoke to, or know.

I Try not to Quote others posts directly Kelly because it would make me look stupid.

There was a reference to BS and promises for a reason, at this point you figure it out.

The reference to "closed minded resistance" was in that it took this long to get here. It was like pulling teeth
and wading through the BS all the way. Plus I have about 3 people like you slamming me every time I say something.
That's BS also but I've predicted that up front in other posts anyway and it sometimes provokes no response at all after doing so.
If I don't say that up front every time I post. It will provoke a response from so and so or so and so. Should I just leave an open box for you and the same people with their names on it for your comments. Its about the same every time.

Do you need that explained for you too?

 

[PawPaw]

I still would like to know where the extra shims can be found.

Paw Paw

 

[Dangermouse449]

I still would like to know where the extra shims can be found.

Paw Paw

Helmut is making them up as needed, He's a mechanic.
I'm sure he'll put up some info soon.

 

[9880sts]

No solid design, but my new design is similar to what you described.

Shimming isn't progress or anything New and exciting, Wolfgang did all of this pre Dakar 2012. He promised this as a cure. They still blew the TL's and transmissions. The only way to fix this is design change.

Who is this Wolfgang ???? no one knows him at the BMW side !!!

 

[9880sts]

I still would like to know where the extra shims can be found.

Paw Paw

Hi Paw Paw,

i have used the extra shim i had left over from my old Torque limiter.
That Shim has a inner Diameter of 17.3mm
and is only as wide as the Bearing race. i forgot now but thats around 3.5mm.

I will Upload some pics with description what i did to get more out of it...

Have you got your Tl out of the Bike at the moment ?

 

[Big Timmy]

Thanks again Helmut, you have put a few things into perspective here. The pictures are great.

I can finally believe that some of these TL tested breakaway numbers mean something. Even if the factory markings from a Multi-Billion Dollar Factory mean nothing. Which I did infact say with some reservation I might add, Forget the numbers in a previous post.

Previous to your posts, all the numbers we were getting were delusional.

Thanks to you now we have real explained numbers and how you were able to actually get there,(pictures included) I will be purchasing a fixture to keep at home and bolt it down to do this myself.

Shim sizes please but take your time and post up at your leisure.

 

[PawPaw]

No, I have not taken it out yet. It seems to be working ok, but I too wanted to do some experimenting with shims to see if I can ad some life to the unit. I have also considered doing some experimenting with disk friction material coating as well. I just did not want to take it out without having something to start with.
Maybe what I need is a second complete unit.
Any idea where I can get one?

Thank you,

Paw Paw

 

[Big Timmy]

Bike Bandit, A&S BMW, just to name a few. Prices have gone up though about 6 months back. The BMW part is the same. Bike bandit used to list 2 different part numbers on their website My Dealer too and I always bought the more expensive one. If the Husqvarna dealers are holding out on being able to get these, go to your nearest online BMW parts distributor.

Or contact "Tinken"@"Zipty", perhaps they still have them also for sale, with already pre-tested higher than normal rated numbers ......?

I'm not sure though about that or if they are still available currently.

Way back in this thread, I said to "Tinken" I would be down for one if he had a supply of them that they were testing out with that high of numbers and I never got a response back.

I got lots of other responses though.

 

[Motosportz]

I got mine from ZipTy, they tested it for me before sending it out. Had nothing but great dealings with them. Calling the shop direct is probably the best thing to do as people don't always see posts on forums. I know I have missed a few.