restricted terra

[glitch_oz]

It's a little bit more than just swapping the cable bracket.
There is no map update needed, but once the hardware is changed, the TPS must be reset, followed by setting the wide open throttle position.
If WOT is not set, the ECU will default to 75% so that even though the butterfly can move to fully open, the ECU will not recognise it as such. The result will be too much air and not enough fuel at WOT.

Hopefully Vic from PFG will call back this afternoon to clear up that issue once and for all.


Edit:
Sorry for the name change from Chris to Vic (the national service manager) , I got that wrong after my initial call.

He did call back and here's the long and the short of it:
Engenia's info is right.
The key difference between the LAMS and open version is the bracket, which restricts throttle movement.
The factory info is NOT clear about if the TPS and WOT settings HAVE to be altered, but it is ....DEEMED!....to be beneficial.
Up to 75% throttle it's all the same, anyway.
To do the adjustment, a MOSS is necessary (plus the info of how to "drive it!!", which some dealerships apparently have considerable problems with).

The max. attainable throttle shows as 85%, which seems to be another quirky figure due to the lack of clear and correct info from Magneto Marelli, the manuf. of the ECU.
The 85% might actually be closer to an actual 100%, nobody really knows anything concrete.
Apparently that's the same as on other bikes, like the BM's and MV's, all of which run the MM electronics.

Looking at the above, it leaves a lot of room for goof-ups and crappy running bikes....dealers without the MOSS... dealers with MOSS but no idea how to use it....bikes delivered with the "restriction" plate into the wrong markets when the brown stuff hit the fan ahead of the KTM takeover etc etc
And NO, there have been NO mapping/firmware upgrades/ ECU flashes etc since the bikes were released, at least not for the Aussie market.

 

[Engenia]

Hopefully Chris from PFG will call back soon to clear up that issue once and for all.

I got my info direct from the tech at PFG a few weeks ago, but it would be good if you could confirm it.

 

[glitch_oz]

Yeah, forgot...everything above goes for the Strada as well.....and....they've had the first few cases of dealers calling up about finding dust in airboxes.
Anyone in Oz on a warranty-claim re: top-end rebuilt yet?

 

[Chuffa]

Anyone in Oz on a warranty-claim re: top-end rebuilt yet?

I'm thinking about it. Airbox is about to be opened for 1st time. Haven't seen much point rushing as I'd already done 20k km of dust etc before the uni filter even came out. The dealer hasn't been enthusiastic about my chances. I have to carry oil on longer rides now.

 

[glitch_oz]

I'm thinking about it. Airbox is about to be opened for 1st time. Haven't seen much point rushing as I'd already done 20k km of dust etc before the uni filter even came out. The dealer hasn't been enthusiastic about my chances. I have to carry oil on longer rides now.

Hmmm....as most other stuff TR, there's no consistency. Yours might be absolutely shiny....you'll know after cracking the lid.

 

[nev..]

Dealer told me there was dust in my airbox when I took mine in for it's 10,000km service a couple of months ago. I suspect this was from when I was using the OEM filters. At least once I noticed the filter hadn't sat properly in the holder. Winter now so no point checking for a few months. I'll get the shop to have another look before the warranty expires at the end of 2014.

 

[MarcoStrada]

Hi guys, i'm a Dutch owner of a TR 650 and, regarding the 35 KW version of the bike, I wonder if someone could confirm indeed that after installing the unrestricted version of the gas cable holder, the throttle settings need to be updated too? (WOT & TPS). I asked the dutch importer and he replied it is really only a gas cable holder swap. I don't know if Dutch 35 KW bikes are different from foreign LAMS bikes, but don't think so myself. Maybe someone can tell?

 

[Engenia]

.. I wonder if someone could confirm indeed that after installing the unrestricted version of the gas cable holder, the throttle settings need to be updated too? (WOT & TPS). I asked the dutch importer and he replied it is really only a gas cable holder swap...

Your Dutch importer needs to go back to "puppy" school.
For a starter, any changes around the throttle of any injected engine will require the TPS to be reset. That's just good policy. Small movements make a big difference when the opening is miniscule.
For those ECU's that don't know exactly where wide open throttle is, that must be set at the same time. The TR650 ECU is one of those where WOT is different between restricted and unrestricted. Others, like Walbro and Sagem assume that the TPS is a certain resistance per degree, and work out WOT from that.

 

[MarcoStrada]

Thanks for your reply Engenia, I'll do a TPS reset after installing the unrestricted version of the cable bracket.

 

[Engenia]

My Terra was de-restricted just before I took delivery just over a year ago. At the time the dealers were not aware that the ECU could treat the two configurations differently, and no TPS reset procedure was done. I fully expected that mine would show the restricted TPS settings, 0 & 75% when it was measured today, but we found it to be 0 & 85%. Totally unexpected.
We did a reset anyway, and it reported 0 & 75% before the procedure was completed. On completion it was back to 0 & 85%.

So it appears that my Terra was delivered with the mechanical throttle restrictor installed and the ECU set for an unrestricted throttle!
Beggars belief.

IMHO, the most likelyway that can happen is if the ECU, when installed, was never setup for the sensors connected to it, which means that it is mere chance that it ran as well as it did!

The other way it could happen, is if the bike started life unrestricted, setup, then the restriction was added as an afterthought, but that makes no sense in a production environment.

 

[Engenia]

To do the adjustment, a MOSS is necessary (plus the info of how to "drive it!!", which some dealerships apparently have considerable problems with)

This is the procedure with v14 of the MOSS tool. (Hopefully I've got all of the steps)

1. select ISTA (workshop system, as opposed to the programming system)
2. Identify
3. vehicle test (not sure if this is really needed)
4. Activities
5. Service Functions
6. Adaptation Values
7. Read (don't really need to do this, but it'll tell you the current state)
8. Reset TVS (Throttle Valve Sensor) - follow the prompts which include a reset at zero and then setting at WOT

 

[glitch_oz]

Thanks for the list...good to know.

 

[engineerk9]

I'm pretty sure that the Australian Importer, Paul Feeney Group, won't sell that part to a dealer or to you directly without going through the process they have, which is that they will request a copy of your licence to show that you're not on a restricted licence. I doubt that you'll be able to source the part directly in Australia, however you might find someone overseas where they don't have the 35kw model who will order the 43kw part on your behalf and forward it to you.

After the part replacement, the bike rides just like everyone else on this forum describes. It is much less dosile. It wants to leap off the line when the lights go green. It wants you to open the throttle more and hear the exhaust note. It actually makes a real big difference. You'll probably realise some of that distance by getting or making one of the various varieties of booster plug available. I would recommend that mod to anyone who had purchased a TR650.

Getting quite a few Aussie TR650 owners now. You might want to put your country/state/city in your profile.

I purchased my "De-restricted Terra" from trooper lu (it wasn't) after much arguing I took on the task myself - it's not difficult, but does take time & requires moving the sub-frame, lifting the fuel tank & removing the air box (great opportunity to improve the crappy air filter, see air filter mods)
There are 2 pulleys on the throttle assembly:- a large diameter one for restricted & a smaller for the de-restricted. The L-shaped bracket is held on with tamper-proof screws. There's a much shorter L bracket for the de-restricted, this was in my User Manual Kit
I also, modified the throttle, making quicker acting, saves my wrist when standing, hoisting the front wheel etc, one "handful" rather than 2!

 

[MarcoStrada]

I swapped the bracket this evening, and didn't have to remove the subframe, airbox and fuel tank. After removing the necessary screws, the airbox could be lifted just enough to have working space for the tools to get the screws of the bracket out. I kept the airbox in slightly lifted position with a piece of wood. I didn't have the special hollow torx driver, but hammered the 'protective pin' in the center of the screws flat out so i could get a grip with a normal torx bit.
Mounted the unrestricted bracket and did the ECU reset as described. Adjusted the throttle cable so no play is left and now the bike finally has some more temper when twisting the throttle!

 

[stego]

From where did you have unrestricted bracket for swapping? Czech importer was telling that there is no kit for derestricting in EU.

 

[FreddoFrog]

From where did you have unrestricted bracket for swapping? Czech importer was telling that there is no kit for derestricting in EU.

The two cable brackets are both in the parts list:- Table 16, No. 4 - 35kW 8539613 and what you want 43kW 7654888 listed as Throttle cable holder or Gaspedalkabelplatte in German. See how you go with the part number if they can find it now

 

[glitch_oz]

From where did you have unrestricted bracket for swapping? Czech importer was telling that there is no kit for derestricting in EU.

I 'm fairly certain the EU-models do NOT come as a restricted model and are all 43kw from the start!
( I could be wrong though...there might be a 25kw version for the German market and others to comply with certain Learner laws and/ or insurance groupings) .
The Australian restricted version only existed to reduce horsepower to sell the bike to the LOCAL!! Learner market. It's got nothing to do with other markets and their rules.

So, that "43kw kit" will quite probably not even show up in the country-specific spares list.
No surprise if a dealer can't find it.

 

[Baddrapp]

Try Halls or Ktm-parts. I don't know if they ship international.

 

[jared tagg]

yes i know that if you go through the dealer you have to show your licence however i found the part on another online site so figured i could order one from over there to avoid the dealer however its sounding like a bit of work to install so might have to find an independent mechanic to do it. Yeah i have been looking at the booster plugs what kind are you running in yours? im based just out of sydney in the hawkesbury region, yet to see another terra on the road but its early days for me.

What site did you buy it off

 

[glitch_oz]

Try Halls or Ktm-parts. I don't know if they ship international.

I doubt, any US dealer will have an Australian LAMS restriction bracket on the shelf.
And if.... our Czech friend will not really be interested in that.