ROUND 1 RESULTS! CR150 VS CR250! Surprize-surprize!!

[fletchman45]

Went in did a few time trials today with a BONE STOCK (original brake pads!!) super low hour 2001 CR 250 Vs a tricked out 2010 CR 150, steering dampner, lowered and revalved, fmf, etc.. Went to Hunterville MN. Good pretty tight singletrack, sandy, some roots, and whooped out pretty good from being over ridden. Pretty much rode the bikes back to back. Most of you guys know this stuff, but it may help a potential buyer make a decision. I weigh 167 and am a good A rider, if that matters. Before listing the times I must say the one thing that is very evident, the new chassis (09) and up 125-150 and 250 4-stroke (310?) is incredible. Period. There are NO shortcomings to this frame, the handling is simply put incredible! The old school 250 also hols it's own. The CR 250 engine (even with the original 48 tooth rear sproket!) is meaty and powerful and does not leave you wanting more! These bikes ergo wise feel so different that when you switch bikes you must ride the one you jump on for 10 minutes or so, just to re adapt!! I just picked a spot in the woods to stop, and turn around. Timed it there and then back, with the same leaving point. On the 1st run I took the CR 150 and rolled to the 1st point at exactly 7 minutes, then the return point was 14.56. I then drank some water took a breather and jumped on the Husky CR 250 and rolled in at 6.56 and back at 14.44 (Maybe I was warmed up??) but the old stock suspended CR beat the modded 150 by 16 seconds!! Next was The CR 150 again same test, rolled in at 6.40! and back at 14.42 then the cr 250 rolled in at 6.56 (put the bike down one time) and back at 14.43! So the CR 150 won this one by 17 seconds! Wow! A one second difference in 4 tests! Went to do round 3 but my dollar general watch, took a crap!! Stay posted Iv'e got more testing to do. In a nutshell what I see is if that 250 engine was in the new frame, Holy cow batman, Gas Gas, NOT!! In my mind I feel faster and much more comfortable on the new school 150, but numbers do not lie. With and FMF pipe a easy clutch and revalved f and r suspension and a 50 tooth rear sproket, I'm not sure where these results would be (hate to say it, but I think the 250 would win!) Next weekend I'll do some more!!!

 

[robertaccio]

time time time at the end of the racing day that is what counts. fun and good test Fletch-get an H cam **************************************** that would rock!!

 

[fletchman45]

time time time at the end of the racing day that is what counts. fun and good test Fletch-get an H cam that would rock!!

I need to get one of those! That would make it more fun!!

 

[robertaccio]

with the H cam you could even breakdown sectional times (ie this tree corner to this tree corner) kinda like F1 does. Mixing science with straight out fun sh%t!!

 

[fletchman45]

with the H cam you could even breakdown sectional times (ie this tree corner to this tree corner) kinda like F1 does. Mixing science with straight out fun sh%t!!

Been pretty broke. But wait I do have a credit card! I just might buy one to have some fun!

 

[krieg]

Seriously, why would it surprise anyone that a 250 2 stroke could rip the face off a 150 2 stroke... even given the age difference? It's no different than the fact that the 150 can suck the paint off a 250 4 stroke... None of this is surprising.

 

[Motosportz]

I regularly ride a 99 ATK406, 03 GG250, 09 husky WB165, TE511, and sometimes a 86 WR400 and i am about the same speed on all of them. My friends always tell me I am as fast on the old WR400 or ATK as i am on the new stuff. If you are an adaptive type like me and like riding all sorts of different bikes (some people like one thing / bike and have trouble adapting quick) you simply take advantage of that particular bikes good points and ride. All bikes are a trade off. You would think i would be FAR faster through the woods on a WB165 than a 99 ATK that for sure but both are set up well and I can get them through the forest about the same speed. The ATK has huge grunt and never needs shifted. Thats it's advantage. The WB165 is amazing the the corners and feels like it weighs nothing but slower up hills and anywhere slightly more open. You end up trading speed in one area for speed in another on different bikes. If all the bikes are setup to your liking (mine are as they are mine) and work for you I have fond your times are almost the same for the most part.

 

[R-J van Hulst]

all true here about the times, but now go riding for 6 hours and do the same comparison.
the lighter bike will probably the winner ( for sure that would be the case when i would ride).

I am much quicker at the end of the day on my 125 than that I ever was on the 250 2 stroke I had before.

Robert-Jan

 

[lankydoug]

all true here about the times, but now go riding for 6 hours and do the same comparison.
the lighter bike will probably the winner ( for sure that would be the case when i would ride).

I am much quicker at the end of the day on my 125 than that I ever was on the 250 2 stroke I had before.

Robert-Jan

6 hours, I wish... It only takes me about 45 minutes to start slowing down and I was never fast to begin with. lol

 

[R-J van Hulst]

6 hours, I wish... It only takes me about 45 minutes to start slowing down and I was never fast to begin with. lol

the slow down for me hits normally at the 2.5 to 3 hour mark on enduro trails.

working out during the week will extend it to the 5 hour mark.

times are all based on a 125 machine

the 250 is more tiring as it is a tat heavier and it is a bit more power that pulls on your arms.

I have to see what the 165 is gonna give me (cant wait to have it assembled)

Robert-Jan

 

[fletchman45]

Seriously, why would it surprise anyone that a 250 2 stroke could rip the face off a 150 2 stroke... even given the age difference? It's no different than the fact that the 150 can suck the paint off a 250 4 stroke... None of this is surprising.

Seriously, why would it surprise anyone that a 250 2 stroke could rip the face off a 150 2 stroke... even given the age difference? It's no different than the fact that the 150 can suck the paint off a 250 4 stroke... None of this is surprising.

Not true! At this point the 150 in 2 back to back tests has a 1 second lead!! I am surprized the 250 is doing as good as it is. In comparison the ergonomics of the bike and the weight difference alone make me think the 150 would smoke the 250! Also the 150 is probably 208 pounds and the cr 250 around 230. Guessing peak power on the 250 app 42 HP and peak on the 150 around 38! So really not much difference at all. What this at this point is telling me is that I'm NOT a good enough rider to use the 150 to my advantage like I should be able to, and with the 250 the engine must be carrying me through. We shall see.

 

[fletchman45]

all true here about the times, but now go riding for 6 hours and do the same comparison.
the lighter bike will probably the winner ( for sure that would be the case when i would ride).

I am much quicker at the end of the day on my 125 than that I ever was on the 250 2 stroke I had before.

Robert-Jan

You are right. This weekend I will try round 2 and extend the riding times just to see what happens! At this point I'm not sure at all, just having a blast!

 

[fletchman45]

I regularly ride a 99 ATK406, 03 GG250, 09 husky WB165, TE511, and sometimes a 86 WR400 and i am about the same speed on all of them. My friends always tell me I am as fast on the old WR400 or ATK as i am on the new stuff. If you are an adaptive type like me and like riding all sorts of different bikes (some people like one thing / bike and have trouble adapting quick) you simply take advantage of that particular bikes good points and ride. All bikes are a trade off. You would think i would be FAR faster through the woods on a WB165 than a 99 ATK that for sure but both are set up well and I can get them through the forest about the same speed. The ATK has huge grunt and never needs shifted. Thats it's advantage. The WB165 is amazing the the corners and feels like it weighs nothing but slower up hills and anywhere slightly more open. You end up trading speed in one area for speed in another on different bikes. If all the bikes are setup to your liking (mine are as they are mine) and work for you I have fond your times are almost the same for the most part.

That is a very interesting concept, however in most cases, most true fast guys are on 250 two strokes and not smallbores. You may be right. If you marry a fat gal and love her, you must adapt to make it all work. LOL. (No my wife is not fat!) I will add a 50 tooth rear sproket, Motion pro terminater clutch cable, and semi mettalic brake pads (stockers DO NOT work for me) and extend the lenth of the course this weekend, and see what happens! Round 2 coming up!

 

[lankydoug]

If my 250 weighed 208 there is no doubt I would be faster on it and be able to ride it longer without getting tired also I'm not sure if I could be fast on a 150 but it sure would be fun trying. @ 6'6" 215lbs it takes me quite a while to set up a bike that I'm comfortable riding... you 5'9" 150lb guys really piss me off.

 

[fletchman45]

If my 250 weighed 208 there is no doubt I would be faster on it and be able to ride it longer without getting tired also I'm not sure if I could be fast on a 150 but it sure would be fun trying. @ 6'6" 215lbs it takes me quite a while to set up a bike that I'm comfortable riding... you 5'9" 150lb guys really piss me off.

Don't feel bad! I'm 5'7. Ok lets be real 5'6 3/4! and 167 pounds. If I was only 150 pounds, my darn 150 would be faster! Yea. Those 5'9" 150 pounders piss me off to! Plus I have to lower my bike.

 

[lankydoug]

Don't feel bad! I'm 5'7. Ok lets be real 5'6 3/4! and 167 pounds. If I was only 150 pounds, my darn 150 would be faster! Yea. Those 5'9" 150 pounders piss me off to! Plus I have to lower my bike.

I rode a YZ125 in 1979 when I was 15years old 6 ft tall and weighed about 155lbs. I'd love to give a 150 a go but to get a bike to fit me takes about $500 dollars in add ons, you 5'9" guys can jump from bike to bike like they are custom made for you... it's not fair

 

[fletchman45]

I'm going to do more testing this weekend. But tonight I went to Akley MN (they have had National enduros there) and rode the 150. I think in the gnarly stuff the 150 may smoke the 250. That new chassis handles SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO good it's like cheating (well almost!) More I think about it. The 165 sounds better. Hall's I here is up to some testing. Awaiting results................

 

[Motosportz]

Rode my ATK 406 last night in tight user built trails. Was a TXC250 with 300 kit, YZ250, CR125 husky with 144 kit, RMX250 and me, no issues hanging with or leading this group. In the end if the bike is good enough you end up about the same speed. Took me a second to remember to come into corners hard and brake drift the rear around and use the huge torque to squirt to the next corner and do it again. Once sorted, it was on.

 

[fletchman45]

Rode my ATK 406 last night in tight user built trails. Was a TXC250 with 300 kit, YZ250, CR125 husky with 144 kit, RMX250 and me, no issues hanging with or leading this group. In the end if the bike is good enough you end up about the same speed. Took me a second to remember to come into corners hard and brake drift the rear around and use the huge torque to squirt to the next corner and do it again. Once sorted, it was on.

I think you are probably right. A guy ends up about the same speed and adapts to what he is driving. Not sure if the weight of the 250 would come into play later in the race. Or if the added torque of the 250 would help you later in a race.

 

[R-J van Hulst]

I think you are probably right. A guy ends up about the same speed and adapts to what he is driving. Not sure if the weight of the 250 would come into play later in the race. Or if the added torque of the 250 would help you later in a race.

that is not a bike factor anymore at the later stage of the race time its the stamina of the rider factor

added torque also wears you out due to the pulling power on your arms.

winning races is all about the combination of bike, physical strength and stamina of the rider and not to forget to keep yourself mentally in control during the race.

Robert-Jan