So What Do We Know About the TR650 EFI?

[hasenpfeffer]

My bike is bone stock. When brand new it did misbehave a little but now that it has around 13,000klm on it the engine has run in nicely and I rarely get any stumbling unless cold. I can take off from lights normally with no coaxing the revs up.
I wont be spoofing, AFXifying or any such thing. I like it just as it is.

I'm in a similar boat as well. I had minor stumbles early on, but I have a hard time remembering any more after 6000+ miles. The bike just goes when I tell it now. I have a feeling that the ECU long term adaptations actually work quite well when left alone to do its job...albeit when there are no actual problem sensors or anything. Sussurf, if you changed to brisk ar10zs plugs, I bet what few stumbles you do encounter would disappear.

 

[drzcharlie]

I envy those of you that can say it ran great out of the box.

Cheers

 

[dmw_az]

Why did you choose the EJK? There are a lot of fueling solutions out there. Some are probably better than others and some might appeal to one person or another based on their knowledge, tinkering ability, or desire for more real time data. What was it about the EJK that convinced you to drop ~$200 on it as opposed to an AF-XiED, LC-1/2, or one of the other controllers?

Great question!

I had an EJK on my 2013 CRF250L. The bike had no major fueling issues other than running fairly lean from the factory (like most bikes). I added a full FMF exhaust, which would lean it out even more and added the EJK at the same time. The bike ran great and had even better throttle response than stock.

I contacted Dillon @ Dobeck about getting an EJK for the TR650 and at the time (last fall), they did not have one. He asked that I be one of their beta testers for a reduced fee on the controller, so I took his offer. They simply took the BMW 650 and tweaked it to work for our bikes. The fueling wasn't great right out of the box, but within a couple weeks I worked with them and they had me tweak the parameters. It's been rock solid for many months now.

I can start the bike cold, and take right off with full power and no stumbling. I don't even think about it anymore.

As Magoo mentions, you remove the O2 sensor, so the ECU doesn't un-learn the programming. I like the idea of the Power commander, but for the price, and the results, you can't beat the EJK.

 

[AUS_TR650]

My bike is bone stock. When brand new it did misbehave a little but now that it has around 13,000klm on it the engine has run in nicely and I rarely get any stumbling unless cold. I can take off from lights normally with no coaxing the revs up.
I wont be spoofing, AFXifying or any such thing. I like it just as it is.

Ditto. Can't fault mine after 12,000km.

 

[MotocycleWriter]

My bike hasn't had any issues either. I'm an engineer and I enjoy learning about the systems and improving them however I can. There are some very minor problems I'm correcting from the PO, such as the clutch cable sliding behind the radiator and wearing off the sheathing, and the poorly fitted 3D Air Filter Mod. My son dropped it and bent the be-jesus out of the stock handlebars. I installed another set which gave me some over-rev issues at idle which I traced back to a tight throttle cable. Rotated the throttle and cleared right up. As far as it goes as a bike, it isn't lemon any more than any bike I've ever owned. To ride it the way I want it's going to need a few mods and I'm a rocket scientist so am somewhat anal about mechanical things. The word lemon implies that the quality control was bad or the design was faulty. The early GM diesels, the Jeeps made under Chrysler, the Chevy Vega, and Harley Davidsons come to mind. This bike AIN'T that. The biggest problem is that it was and will forever be a one year bike which means none of the flaws got worked out by the manufacturer. Had the 650 stayed in production I have little doubt the niggles we experience would have been smoothed out. I love my TR and hope to ride it 100,000 miles.

 

[engineerk9]

I guess I'm in the same boat as sussurfer.
24 months and 27k km. No mods just start and ride. Don't ever wait for it to warm up, turn the key and ride.
Never an issue with it in 0c or +40c No flat spots No stalls
I guess I'm using mine as a fun toy more then an investment.

Just lots of trips, adventure and fun. One day I will wash it. Maybe.

I guess a few of you guys have been very lucky

 

[Mark_H]

My bike is bone stock. When brand new it did misbehave a little but now that it has around 13,000klm on it the engine has run in nicely and I rarely get any stumbling unless cold. I can take off from lights normally with no coaxing the revs up.
I wont be spoofing, AFXifying or any such thing. I like it just as it is.

Great stuff, you are lucky, but I think that if I was not riding my bike a lot in traffic I might be same as you, except for all the other crap such as water in swing arm, dodgy cooling system, etc etc....
I am quite interested that you also have seen fit not to bother with the Pod Mod same as me, regular checks and change of air filter show no problems.

Wish I could ride it like I stole it some days, but it really is not that kind of bike and its too hot and busy where I live.

 

[Mark_H]

I guess I'm in the same boat as sussurfer.
24 months and 27k km. No mods just start and ride. Don't ever wait for it to warm up, turn the key and ride.
Never an issue with it in 0c or +40c No flat spots No stalls
I guess I'm using mine as a fun toy more then an investment.

Just lots of trips, adventure and fun. One day I will wash it. Maybe.

I am jealous, but also interested to see there is yet another non Pod Modder hehe.

 

[Mark_H]

Mark,

I somewhat disagree. I think that the word "lemon" is a bit strong. The Rotax is bullet proof, the EFI and ECU are the quizzical parts of this machine. I have less than $450 invested in testing and ultimately settling on the LC2. The AF_XIED device worked equally well but I could not chart the results, hence, the LC2. I would not have learned anything about FI had I not purchased this bike and met Roger04RT. He is a smart guy with the patience of a saint.

Lemons come in the form of many different manufacturers and bikes and this bike certainly fits in there somewhere. It's really a pity that nobody has cracked the ECU hex code in a manner that would facilitate changing fueling. It is what it is. I just chose to optimize and use the bike. Fretting over it just didn't trip my trigger. Riding it does.

As for the hours spent doing mods and research, yeah there is that. But I'm retired and like doing this sort of thing.

Charlie, first you disagree that it is a Lemon, then say Lemons come in all forms and this bike fits in there somewhere ??
If the Rotax is so bullet proof, then why do I read stories of knackered engines and get told by you that I have to do a Pod Mod or face certain mechanical death ??
If the ECU and EFI were the only quizzical parts of this machine I am sure there would be many more happier owners out there. Let us not mention the other dozen or so design faults and serious issues that have arisen for other members through normal use of this bike.
My view is, a lot of people bought this bike and I would bet that given half a chance and a decent price (ie not a total loss) 75% of them would sell it and get something else tomorrow cos it really is that great to own. We could have a 'Regret' Poll just to see !!

Similar to you I have plenty of time and money to spare on the bike, but by God I need it cos it is a Lemon no doubt, but then again I enjoy a challenge and I have also learned about Fuel Injection and tinkered in my own way.

 

[Chuffa]

Beautiful lemonade. I'm sure you hear more from those who have issues with the bike. I sympathise, because when it's going well - it's going great!

 

[drzcharlie]

Charlie, first you disagree that it is a Lemon, then say Lemons come in all forms and this bike fits in there somewhere ??
If the Rotax is so bullet proof, then why do I read stories of knackered engines and get told by you that I have to do a Pod Mod or face certain mechanical death ??
If the ECU and EFI were the only quizzical parts of this machine I am sure there would be many more happier owners out there. Let us not mention the other dozen or so design faults and serious issues that have arisen for other members through normal use of this bike.
My view is, a lot of people bought this bike and I would bet that given half a chance and a decent price (ie not a total loss) 75% of them would sell it and get something else tomorrow cos it really is that great to own. We could have a 'Regret' Poll just to see !!

Similar to you I have plenty of time and money to spare on the bike, but by God I need it cos it is a Lemon no doubt, but then again I enjoy a challenge and I have also learned about Fuel Injection and tinkered in my own way.

So, I guess I have to ask why you are busting my chops? If you don't care for the bike you have options. Yes, the bike has problems. I have gone the distance trying to solve some of them and shared them with everyone. That's all I can do as a TR650 community member. You had the choice to buy or not. So did I. I got mine at a tremendous bargain due to a clerical error on the dealers part. I jumped on it KNOWING it was a bastard bike and it airbox and FI problems. That was MY choice. If you want to argue about whether rotax is a venerable engine do it with someone else.

Sorry for providing help, guidance, tutorials, experimentation and documentation.

 

[DeLewis]

Lemon?! This thing's as sweet as a nut! I rate it as one of the best dual sports ever. The engine is of course the highlight and Mark if you actually tried one of the 'tried and tested' solutions like AF-XIED or LC2 or EJK, etc instead of some discredited 'fixes', you too may discover what a pleasure the bike can be.

The Rotax motors have an exceptional reputation for longevity and durability. And how damn smooth!

The air filtration flaw and fuelling issue is actually something which has plagued the late model KTMs as well. But both these things are easily and cheaply fixed.

I had a lemon once - an orange coloured KTM 640 - heck of a fun bike but nothing but trouble. The TR is a bulls roar away from that as it is fundamentally an excellent bike with some quirks that are easily dealt with. But I'm sure you'll have a contrary view!

 

[spiderman]

Once I finally got the fueling problem ironed out I absolutely love this bike. It's everything I've wanted in a dual sport . When it wears out I will probably get a used one with low miles. Thanks Charlie and others for all your help.

 

[MotocycleWriter]

Sorry for providing help, guidance, tutorials, experimentation and documentation.

I appreciate your trailblazing. It has helped me understand the weak points of my TR even though I've yet to experience a problem that wasn't my fault. To me, much of the satisfaction of owning a machine like this is learning the systems, making it the best it can be, tinkering, and knowing what kind of issues I can and can't solve on the trail.

 

[Hansi]

Charlie, first you disagree that it is a Lemon, then say Lemons come in all forms and this bike fits in there somewhere ??
If the Rotax is so bullet proof, then why do I read stories of knackered engines and get told by you that I have to do a Pod Mod or face certain mechanical death ??
If the ECU and EFI were the only quizzical parts of this machine I am sure there would be many more happier owners out there. Let us not mention the other dozen or so design faults and serious issues that have arisen for other members through normal use of this bike.
My view is, a lot of people bought this bike and I would bet that given half a chance and a decent price (ie not a total loss) 75% of them would sell it and get something else tomorrow cos it really is that great to own. We could have a 'Regret' Poll just to see !!

Similar to you I have plenty of time and money to spare on the bike, but by God I need it cos it is a Lemon no doubt, but then again I enjoy a challenge and I have also learned about Fuel Injection and tinkered in my own way.

Got more than 20 000 miles on my Terra. Lemon ? No way ! Pod mod, Wukka King, one can and brisk plugs. Lean stumble happens very rarely, but I know how to deal with it. Love the bike and what it can do on and off road. Compared to my last three bikes ( Yamaha XT600, Triumph Tiger and Buell Ulysses ) this bike runs like a charm with the need of very little mods.
No need to knock people like Charlie that try to help and put a lot of hours in to help you to make your TR650 run like it should. Read and listen to the advice that is offered in this forum and transform your TR650 to be an above average dual sport or sell it and move on.

 

[Ogre_fl]

Once I finally got the fueling problem ironed out I absolutely love this bike. It's everything I've wanted in a dual sport . When it wears out I will probably get a used one with low miles. Thanks Charlie and others for all your help.

What did you do that worked out?
You seemed to have the longest run of problems with fueling without a good fix.

 

[spiderman]

What did you do that worked out?
You seemed to have the longest run of problems with fueling without a good fix.

I had the later EJK which had been set up for the Terra but I couldn't seem to get it dialed in. I think the ECU was all screwed up from the booster plug, O2 sensor extender, long term trim, etc. I ended up removing the EJK, had the dealer Moss it to reset the ECU, then reinstalled it with factory settings. It ran very well right off the bat but that was early in the spring and I wasn't sure the settings would be good for warmer and more humid weather. At this point I still haven't adjusted it at all and it's running great and the plugs are burning clean. Last thing to try is running it at higher altitudes and see if it requires any further tweaking. I'm a happy owner.

 

[rride]

Got more than 20 000 miles on my Terra. Lemon ? No way ! Pod mod, Wukka King, one can and brisk plugs. Lean stumble happens very rarely, but I know how to deal with it. Love the bike and what it can do on and off road. Compared to my last three bikes ( Yamaha XT600, Triumph Tiger and Buell Ulysses ) this bike runs like a charm with the need of very little mods.
No need to knock people like Charlie that try to help and put a lot of hours in to help you to make your TR650 run like it should. Read and listen to the advice that is offered in this forum and transform your TR650 to be an above average dual sport or sell it and move on.

Most complaints about most performance machines are riding them in a range they were not meant to ride (usually low rpm's.) If it hurts, don't do it! You don't need a pill pusher to tell you that, do you? The only thing I know for sure that it needs is the gears back cut.

But I'd suggest a one hour test drive if possible to make sure it is not already screwed up or was never set up correctly to begin with :-D

 

[vodka]

Reducing the front sprocket helped a bit, then i coughed up some $ for power cmnder and at... with a bit of trial and error it takes of like a scalded cat.. through flinders ranges creek beds, unsealed roads like a dream... keeps up with 600cc road bikes...and goes where they cant. I can load it to the gills. I love this bike. Test rode the usual other suspects and saved so much cf bmw and ktm.. As was said above re ktm guy being scared of this bike ...with refinements over time, air intake, fuelling, tank capacity ,a little weight loss,development of greater a/market choice.. this bike would have earned a place in dual sport. Even if i could i am way too emotional with this bike to sell it even if i could.

 

[engineerk9]

I had the later EJK which had been set up for the Terra but I couldn't seem to get it dialed in. I think the ECU was all screwed up from the booster plug, O2 sensor extender, long term trim, etc. I ended up removing the EJK, had the dealer Moss it to reset the ECU, then reinstalled it with factory settings. It ran very well right off the bat but that was early in the spring and I wasn't sure the settings would be good for warmer and more humid weather. At this point I still haven't adjusted it at all and it's running great and the plugs are burning clean. Last thing to try is running it at higher altitudes and see if it requires any further tweaking. I'm a happy owner.

You were lucky that the Dealer did the MOSS
I can't help feeing the besides the airbox challenges, the giggest difference between our bikes is most likely the competence of the Dealer
Here in Sydney, the one l purchased my TR off wouldn't know shit from clay