Stuck Cylinder, Advice Needed!

[Bigbill]

I hope your planning on splitting the case. There's dirt and rust in the stud holes it's going to get into the crankcase. Put the engine on its side then upside down so the dirt falls out as much as possible.

 

[adam6402]

hey mate, i hope you see this,
i've set mine up the same way, it's got enough tension to flex the frame spine and it's really really tight, i have been belting my cylinder as well and it's been soaking in wurth "rostoff" for weeks before i got my frame back so i could set it up.
how long did it take you to get separation? mine isn't even hinting at moving.....

Mine soaked at least a week. As someone else posted after my original post, the preferred method is to double nut the studs and take the studs out. You might try flipping the bike upside down and try flushing some of the crud out. Don't recall how much space between the cylinder and studs, can you slide a long sharp object up in there to likewise chisel some of the stuff out? Good luck!

 

[loony888]

steve,
Interesting link, thanks. i don't know if i need to use it yet, mine has been drowned in almost everything slippery i had in the shed......

bill,
yes mate, i'm stripping it to bare cases, at least that's my plan! Bloody thing isn't playing ball!
I've had it inverted, with a vibrator on the studs, flushing as much lube into it as i can, i can move the studs around and no more crap falls out, pretty sure i've got as much of the loose stuff out as i can until i get more bits apart

adam,
Thanks for the reply, was it at least a week strapped into the frame with tension on it? mine has been soaking for a month so far but i only got my frame back a couple of days ago so it's been bolted in with the ratchet straps for only three days so far but i have been giving it a severe belting with my rubber mallet....
I can wriggle the studs in the bore but they will NOT undo! double nuts, vice grips, the lot. i'll try using some wire up the bore to try and disturb some more crud.....

My last resort is to make a piece of steel that i can fit in the bore so it sits in the transfer ports with a welded nut on it, put a plate on the cylinder studs with a bolt through wound into the nut welded on the plate then turn a nut against the top plate jacking the barrel upwards pulling against the transfer ports and the cylinder studs, it's all steel so i can't see anything getting damaged but to be honest, it really does have to come apart! i'm up for any and all ideas.....

 

[Bigbill]

A rap on the side of the cylinder with a rubber hammer just may loosen the bloody thing.



Last resort try a puller on the two small head bolts with a block of wood on the piston between the puller shaft. Next apply some heat to the four stud areas at the bottom the heat flows up. Tighten the puller as you heat it.

You could thread/tap two of the stud holes if you can get them out.and use the puller on those, we still have options. We will get this thing off.

 

[Bigbill]

How about a press? Put two pieces of steel between the lower fins and the case. Then put a square piece of steel on top of the cylinder studs and press it lightly.

 

[loony888]

How about a press? Put two pieces of steel between the lower fins and the case. Then put a square piece of steel on top of the cylinder studs and press it lightly.

i've thought of that but was advised against it, the fins are old soft alloy and if anything will give before the barrel/to/cases it would be them, but i'm running out of options and it may be on the cards if nothing else works....

 

[Bigbill]

Put wooden wedges in the fins?

Drill a small hole into the stud hole and pump in the PB blaster.

I wish we lived closer I swim but not that far.

 

[ruwfo]

buy a product call Deep Creep, used it twice with success

 

[justintendo]

never tried kroil as i hear its great but sea foam's "deep creep" is my penetrant of choice. great stuff, much better than pb blaster, especially when adding heat to the equation. pb disappears as soon as you get heat near it. the deep creep will hang around and wick in as long as you dont get it too hot.
i also use it to lube all my cables, works awesome for that as well...

i had a stuck single cylinder snowmobile last winter as mice had got in the exhaust and pissed everywhere. corroded the rear of the piston badly. i removed the head, applied heat and deep creep for several days. luckily it wasnt at tdc or bdc, so i used a hammer and a 2"x2" foot long piece of wood and just kept pounding the top of the piston till it budged...finally came off but it was a struggle.

 

[2premo]

Next time double nut the studs to remove them. Pull the studs and wire wheel them.
To flush the bottom end when your ready to reasemble it. Fill it full of gas.

Tip it over to drain the gas out,then flush it out with garden hose soapy hot water.
now mix quart of gas and oil fill it up again. Drain it blow it out lightly oil main bearing RH side and oil on big end of rod,top end bearing. your done.
Use a drill motor with flapper wheel to clean out cyl stud holes.
Later George

good procedure, thanks, oh yeah i do it that way too no wonder it sounds good
addition if it's really nasty use a shop vac as you go less crud to flush out

 

[Bigbill]

Heat the stud area on the corners at the cylinder above the base. Heat goes up. Aluminium is a heat sink it will draw the heat in that area. Heat is the way to go. Those rods are encrusted with dirt and rust. The rust can act like fish hooks in the hard dirt.

After its apart remove the rods clean them and wire brush them. I'm thinking of a light coat of a rust primer.

 

[84scrambler]

I'm thinking throw away and find better ones...

 

[dartyppyt]

Where is the piston in the bore? Closer to top?

I would take small air cut off wheel and cut top of piston out.

That would get you to area of wrist pin.

Then I would use an air saw to make two cuts beside top of rod? Not sure if you could get sawzall in there?

Do not rule out taking it to a machine shop to just mill through the piston and top of rod.

 

[Bigbill]

Is the piston stuck in the bore?

Heat the piston it will free up.

I do this on stuck pistons in car engines. The cast iron expands the piston frees up.

 

[loony888]

nah, the bottom end is pretty good actually, the piston has score marks but the bearings feel very smooth and clean. Unfortunately when i was disassembling it the threaded snout on the end of the crank broke off! now i have no choice, i have to get it apart to repair the crank which is fine because i'm going to freshen it up inside and out.

As of now my engine is stripped as far as i can go, the barrel and studs are still in place, they will not budge! but i have a piece of steel bar with a bolt welded in the middle in the bore sitting in the transfer ports, booker rod screwed into that and a steel plate resting on the top of the studs (on old nuts) with the booker rod through the plate and a nut cranked down effectively jacking the barrel off the cases against the studs.

I have also mixed a 50/50 solution of acetone and ATF which is supposed to be the bees knees of penetrants and it's soaked in the stuff, (thanks for the link steve!) i have also scraped and picked out the fibre base gasket giving me the best possible chance of getting the slippery stuff in there.

I am now crossing my fingers and waiting while i get on with other stuff.....

 

[Bigbill]

Heat it

 

[jimspac]

Aluminum expands faster than cast iron. If anything other than allowing Marvel Mystery Oil or the above mentioned concoction to work, pack it in dry ice because the aluminum will shrink faster as well. If you have the access to remove the wristpin you can remove the cylinder and piston and have more options such as pressing out or even breaking the piston into pieces if not salvagable

 

[husqyman]

Piston isn't stuck. In one of Andy's (HVA) posts he mentioned that he had to cut through the barrel/studs near the base with a disc cutter to remove the barrel, being careful not to cut into the liner. I think he has a picture but I cant find the thread.

 

[ct cr430]

Is there any indication that someone could have used a sealant in the base gasket area ? If so heat may free it up .

 

[Bigbill]

A little heat at the base area above the case will remove it. Heat it, rap the cylinder with a plastic dead blow rubber hammer, heat it a tad more rap it again. Repeat till it's off.