te310 tires Pirelli Scorpion XC MH???

[Rizzkid]

I am ready to swap the stock Karoos. The front Karoo is horrible in the sand, the back is OK.
I need DOT tires that can handle sugar sand and do occasional short rides on pavement. I am considering the Pirelli XC MH tires since they seem aggressive and are DOT.
Should I stick with the current 140/80/18 rear? I would think wide is better to track on sand. The Pirelli XC MH tire is offered in a 120 or a 140. Also the front is only offered in a 80/100/21 as opposed to the stock 90/90/21. Is this OK. The 90/90/21 is a litter wider which is nice for sand?

 

[McKay]

Motoz, see Kelly at Motosportz (site sponsor)
Id stick with the 140's 90's for traction but sand is more skill than tires.

 

[Tinken]

I have been searching for the same, long distance extra soft sand/silt. 90/100 is a must for the front, 120, 130,140 rears. Scorpion Pro or motoz desert are what I am going to try. Motoz IT does not come in a 90 and will dive in super soft. Desert race friends recommend Scorp Pro DOT (it only comes in a 90), prob what I will try first.
http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/44/86/176/742/-/3529/Pirelli-Scorpion-Pro-F.I.M.

 

[McKay]

I just spent two days with Jimmy Lewis in the sand on my Motoz It's (Enduros, front and rear). I'm super happy to report that the front did not dive at all once Jimmy beat me into
getting off the dam throttle. "Pin it," as most of us have always heard, is not the way to ride sand, throttle control and balance are king I've learned.

I'm much MUCH faster and confident in sand now that I've learned how Jimmy rides sand. He taught us how to quickly get on top of it and stay there no matter the speed or turns, it was a
light bulb moment for me once I figured out what he was telling us. Id say only 50% of the class "got it" though, which is too bad.
Don't need no stinking paddles to ride sand!

 

[Tinken]

I agree that it isn't all tires. Many factors come into play when riding in the sand and especially the sugar sand which is much softer. Suspension geometry, Sag and riding position is also key, if the bike is raked forward, it will load the front tire. I think the Scorpion xcmh's are a good tire, as well as the xcms, I don't know if those come in a 90 width like the Scorpion Pro. I like the Motoz IT front, but it only comes in an 80 width and isn't good for me. I have been asking around about the Motoz desert ht front, but I haven't gotten anything but vague responses about it's ability in sand. Michelin's run narrow for their sizes so even 90 widths are really closer to 80.

 

[Motosportz]

The Motoz ST comes in a 90-100-21 and is DOT. Similar to the IT but slightly more open knob pattern. Should be great in the sand.

 

[McKay]

We had what the local out in Pahrump called fesh fesh, that stuff was like talcum powder and just as slippery. I hit some at 50mph and the earth went dark for a second!

 

[shilo020]

I had Scorpion pro 90/90/21 and 140/80/18. Were good tires and got 1500 miles on them. Put on Motoz IT now. Followed the advice given here and went 80/100/21 and 110/100/21. Great tires. Like MX with DOT sticker. But like MX tire are not lasting long. The smaller rear is way more fun. Bike quicker and lighter. Ok in the sand even though smaller. The Scorpion Pro seem to run narrow. I reccomend going 120/90/18 in rear with them.

 

[robertaccio]

140/80-18 is way overkill for the rear, wec enduro pro teams use them only on E2-E3 250cc+ 2T and 450+4T. I think KTM uses the 140s on their E2 350cc bikes as well. The 310 is really a 250 4T and the 120/90-18 (or for our common use similar size) is the industry FIM pro standard for E1 size machines. For 250cc MX machines it is near the same width but in the 19in dia.
I would stick with the sizing for 250 4T bikes like all the other brands use for 18in standard on their 250Fs (WR250F,CRF250X, KTM250XC-F for examples) those will all be in line/near size with the 120/90-18 FIM standard. Use the size that comes on the TC250/TXC250/TXC310 that is also a good guideline as well.
example from Yamaha WR250F (125cc 2T size tires are OEM)
Tires / Front 80/100-21-51M
Tires / Rear
100/100-18-59M

TXC310R OEM spec
RIMS/TIRES:
Front: 1.60x21 Excel rim, 80/100-21
Rear: 2.15x18 Excel rim, 110/100-18

TE310R (OEM DOT FIM enduro Type tires)
RIMS/TIRES:
Front: 1.60x21 Excel rim, 90/90-21
Rear: 2.15x18 Excel rim, 120/90-18

 

[McKay]

Your right, Tinken hijacked the thread with 449/511 info!












Sorry

 

[Tinken]

Your right, Tinken hijacked the thread with 449/511 info! Sorry

Motoz, see Kelly at Motosportz (site sponsor)
Id stick with the 140's 90's for traction but sand is more skill than tires.

I have a KTM 300 XC and I have ran 110, 120, even 140's on it. Not sure how I was hijacking with 449 info? My apologies to Rizz if that's the case.

 

[McKay]

was a joke, I hijacked it

 

[mikebru]

I just spent two days with Jimmy Lewis in the sand on my Motoz It's (Enduros, front and rear). I'm super happy to report that the front did not dive at all once Jimmy beat me into
getting off the dam throttle. "Pin it," as most of us have always heard, is not the way to ride sand, throttle control and balance are king I've learned.

I'm much MUCH faster and confident in sand now that I've learned how Jimmy rides sand. He taught us how to quickly get on top of it and stay there no matter the speed or turns, it was a
light bulb moment for me once I figured out what he was telling us. Id say only 50% of the class "got it" though, which is too bad.
Don't need no stinking paddles to ride sand!

McKay - End the suspense! What is the secret to riding sand successfully? How do you get on top of it early?

I ride in central/southern NJ and have not been comfortable in the sand yet.

 

[shilo020]

I agree with Tinken. Many factors come into play in the sand. Stay balanced in the middle of the bike, on the pegs, and ride it. Shift up a gear so power smoother to rear wheel. Easy on direction change. I have a steering damper. Works great in sand. (Thanks Motosportz.) Don't have the bike raked to far back or lean to far back. If the front too light it will wonder all over the place. This is why I got rid of a lowering link (too much rake) and got a bigger tank instead of fuel on a rear rack. (That and I broke the bolts to the subframe four times). That combo deadly. Unstable on anything soft. Oh, and trust me. Smaller rear WAY more fun on everything!

 

[Rizzkid]

Keep the info coming guys i appreciate the insight.

I am leaning towards the Pirelli XC Mid Hard tire 120/100/18 rear. I called Pirelli tech support to get the exact tread width and they say 5.31 inches wide on the 120 and 5.6 wide on the 140 rear. The stock Karoo (using my digital calipers) is 5.5 inches wide (all widths are knob to knob, not just the tire carcass)

I do want a DOT tire with some good width to ride in deep sand. I do acknowledge that the 140 may be too wide for a 302cc bike so a 120 seems like a good compromise. I am concerned that the 80/100/21 front may be too skinny since the stock is a 90/90/21

FYI the TE310 has a 1.6mm front rim and a 2.15 rear. In looking at recommended tire widths on the two stock Karoos , they seem too wide for the rims? I guess Husky is OK with this?

Anyone know the real width knob to knob on the pirelli xcmh front tire? MM or inches would be great!

 

[McKay]

McKay - End the suspense! What is the secret to riding sand successfully? How do you get on top of it early?

I ride in central/southern NJ and have not been comfortable in the sand yet.

Lol, don't know if I can explain like Jimmy did but the key was to get on top, go up one gear from where you think you need to be and don't be afraid to lug it. If you think you need first, start in second etc. A quick but smooth blip of the throttle then back that sucker down when you feel the forward momentum. This gets you on top if you stopped and puts you on top. From there it is very small applications of throttle, the second you think its digging in, it is, back off then apply again. Sounds complicated and hard to get going fast but it really isn't. Once your on top, stay one gear up. Stand up always from a stop, always weight the pegs.

He proved that jumping up and down on the seat to weight the back end was fruitless. He buried a GS up to the axel and got it out barely above idle.

I hope some of that makes sense, up gear, small controlled throttle movements till on top then let it rip.

 

[Tinken]

There's less than 5/16" width difference between those xcmh 120 & 140's, but the lugs on a 140 are much larger. If you were going to be riding on dirt or rock, in the woods or on the MX track, then even a 120 may be more than you need, 110 probably. And then there's sand. More is better in the sand, it keeps the front end light and on top. People use paddles in the dunes for a reason and you won't see too many trails tires on bikes in the dunes. Don't worry about too little or too big, you ride a Husky 300, it will pull anything you toss on there. There is going to be a compromise either way, you may have to test out a few different combinations before you achieve the feel you want.

 

[McKay]

More is better in the sand, it keeps the front end light and on top. People use paddles in the dunes for a reason and you won't see too many trails tires on bikes in the dunes.

Respectfully disagree with more is better in the sand. Jimmy and his co-instructors were on MT43 trials tires. They had no issues whatsoever. It really was an eye opener.

 

[Tinken]

Respectfully disagree with more is better in the sand. Jimmy and his co-instructors were on MT43 trials tires. They had no issues whatsoever. It really was an eye opener.

Down the occasional sand wash or sandy road, sure, especially if skilled. Occasionally I see some of the old guys racing our desert sand with trails tires, its rare. But not for riding endless miles in the sand dunes haha. But if you are sure you can handle it, put a mt43 on your 449 and you can ride with me to the top of the 18 story dunes.

 

[mikebru]

Lol, don't know if I can explain like Jimmy did but the key was to get on top, go up one gear from where you think you need to be and don't be afraid to lug it. If you think you need first, start in second etc. A quick but smooth blip of the throttle then back that sucker down when you feel the forward momentum. This gets you on top if you stopped and puts you on top. From there it is very small applications of throttle, the second you think its digging in, it is, back off then apply again. Sounds complicated and hard to get going fast but it really isn't. Once your on top, stay one gear up. Stand up always from a stop, always weight the pegs.

He proved that jumping up and down on the seat to weight the back end was fruitless. He buried a GS up to the axel and got it out barely above idle.

I hope some of that makes sense, up gear, small controlled throttle movements till on top then let it rip.

Awesome, thanks. Will try next time I'm out in the woods.